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Episode #40

The one about even more ways to use recorded messages – #40

Episode 040:

  • How Joe use recorded messages to reduce refunds
  • Dean shares a killer formula that may work for your yellow pages ad
  • How to use recorded messages whenever you’re hiring people
  • PLUS: A cliffhanger ending…
Transcript

Dean: Hey, everybody! It’s Dean Jackson.

Joe: And Joe Polish.

Dean: Here we are.

Joe: Here are again, at a fun-filled day for I Love Marketing listeners worldwide. And I do want to mention that the Meetup groups at ILoveMarketing.com, we now have a very special tab up there, and you can see Meetup groups that are cropping up all over the world, and it’s awesome.

Dean: How exciting is that? Right from the home page of ILoveMarketing.com, just that little tab says, “Meetups.”

Joe: Yep. So, go there. We’ve been having some very lively, awesome Meetup groups at Piranha Marketing, and it’s just bad to the bone.

Dean: Exciting. And, you know, I’m excited because we can say this now, because we didn’t know whether our audio test was actually going to work last episode, but it did, and it sounds great.

Joe: Yeah. So, assuming I’m not screwing it up on my end with the recording here, I think we’re good. We do have a backup, because we are backing up the recordings the way we’re doing it here, but we are still relatively new at this, and it’s only a matter of time. The sarcastic side of me says, “It’s only a matter of time before one of the recording things has a hiccup, and then we have to use the backup recording that’s done over the phone. And then, a few people complain, and I’ll feel terrible. But for the most part, yeah. We’re going.

Dean: Let’s say, right now, I’m going to say that if that does happen, that we will cheerfully offer everybody a refund for that particular episode, if we ever have to use the backup audio.

Joe: Yes, exactly. Last episode, we actually talked about we were going to kind of do some of my lists. We’re going through this 100 list that I have, which is basically clicks on the dial.

Dean: We got to number one.

Joe: Yeah. And I think we started with free recorded messages, and we kind of didn’t go beyond that.

Dean: That’s okay, because it’s such a great topic.

Joe: Yeah. Yeah. And I know we’ve got a lot of people now using free recorded messages as a result of that, and that is awesome. So, we’re still going to pick up where we left off, because it is a marketing method. There are 3 things you need in order to sell something. You need a product or service, you need a sales pitch or marketing message, and you need a delivery system. A free recorded messages is a delivery system. A website is a delivery system. A direct mail campaign is a delivery system. TV, radio. You’ve heard us talk about this all the time, and we will continue to talk about it, because there just some very foundational things to always remind everybody about.

Free recorded messages are a great delivery system, and there’s a lot of ways to use it. So, we can talk about ways to use it before the sale, in order to get someone to become educated, to lead generate, request a free report, a consumer awareness guide, a DVD. There’s lots of applications where you can use it, but you can also use it after a sale, during. For instance, a carpet cleaner can have recommendations on, after cleaning, what to do after the carpet is cleaned, and they can leave a little card on the kitchen table or the countertop in the kitchen.

Dean: Boy, that would be great. That would be a great thing. Remember, we had talked about a carpet cleaner dropping off maybe a spot remover the day after they clean the carpets, and maybe along with it a little card saying, “Here’s a little voicemail recorded message, that answers a couple of emergency situations.”

Joe: I already have cleaners that do that all over the world.

Dean: Imagine that.

Joe: Yeah, imagine that. Having free recorded messages, they even use them on refrigerator magnets. One of the very clever things that I came up with years ago was you would have a lot of companies that will leave calendars, and sometimes people put a calendar up, like Farmers Insurance or State Farm, or whatever. And that’s kind of cool, assuming someone wants to have a pitch for a calendar hanging on their wall. Some people do, and that’s fine. Others put refrigerator magnets, which is great. And I thought, “How do you remind someone continuously about their dirty carpets? Where can you put it where it’s always going to be seen as much as humanly possible, on something that is directly related to carpet cleaning, as an example?” So, I started having carpet cleaners put free recorded message stickers on a vacuum cleaner. So, when they’re at the home, they would say to Mr. or Mrs. Jones, “Mrs. Jones, in case you ever have an emergency spot or spill and you need to get a hold of us, I’m going to place this sticker on top of your vacuum cleaner, so you’ll always know where to find us. Because most people don’t misplace their vacuum cleaner. They can always find it, because it’s big.”

And you turn it into a benefit for the homeowner, that in case there’s an emergency spot or spill, they always have your phone number. And I’d say, “Put a bright red or fluorescent yellow or green sticker that says, ‘Are you fed up with your dirty carpet? Call this 24-hour free recorded message.’” And they can also have their phone number, their website on the sticker too, if they want to do that. Len and Annette, who live outside of Toronto, Niagara, you’ve met them before, they’re great clients, and they have a sticker that says, “Dirty Carpets?” and their phone number, and it’s right there. So, whenever Mr. or Mrs. Jones is vacuuming, and it’s probably rarely the guy, and sometimes they’ll have a housekeeper, but the point is if you let them know that’s where your phone number is, and if they actually vacuum, 2 or 3 times a week, what are they looking at? They’re staring at a sticker that says, “Dirty Carpets?”

Dean: It’s the perfect place for it.

Joe: Right.

Dean: It reminds me of when Snapple was launching their mango flavor. They contracted with the mango growers association, to put stickers on 10-million mangos that said, “Now available in Snapple.” And you think, “What a great being in the right place.” Because mangos are kind of an acquired taste. But who would like mango flavored Snapple more than somebody who’s buying mangos?

Joe: Yeah, totally. Let me mention something, Dean. Because now that we have this fancy backup recording thing, we don’t have to worry about this as much. But just in case your regular telephone, I can hear it like staticy and crackling and everything. So, if you’re able to kind of fix that, please go right ahead. For no one else’s benefit other than it will be easier for me to hear you.

Dean: Right.

Joe: You know what I’m saying?

Dean: I hear you.

Joe: I always wonder what people who read the transcripts of these calls actually must sound like, without hearing our voices, if they’re just reading the transcript.

Dean: They probably make their own voices up. What if they read us as like Kyle and Stan, from South Park or something?

Joe: That would be weird.

Dean: We should hire some impersonators one day.

Joe: Yes. Yes. Can we get back to business here, and quit getting distracted? How often am I having to keep you in line, from going off on tangents?

Dean: I know. It’s like role-reversal.

Joe: Yeah. And I don’t even know how long ago we actually started, so I hope you’re keeping track of time here.

Dean: I do, so don’t you worry. We’ve go plenty of time.

Joe: Okay. So, basically, there are before strategies you can use, there are during strategies like that, and there are after strategies. What do you do after you’ve made a sale? So, following-up with people and going back to kind of free recorded messages, I wanted to talk about different uses of robotic, automatic, education-based marketing. We’ll talk about in the context of free recorded messages, although this can be done with videos, this can be done online, this can be done offline. And there’s different applications, too. So, you can use free recorded messages, as an example, to sell and to lead generate. You could use free recorded messages once you have a client, to continue to be educated.

For instance, let’s talk about carpet cleaning again. In between cleaning, if people want recommendations on how to remove a spot, there could be a 24-hour emergency spot and stain removal hotline. One of the things that these little nuances within each industry, you don’t really remove stains. You remove spots. Stains are permanent, unless you then go in and start removing dyes or adding dyes, things like that. In the carpet cleaning world, the proper terminology is “spot removal,” not “stain removal,” although that can be done. But the point is emergency spot and stain hotline. What do you do if you spill something? And you could have a hotline that just gives people advice, or “How to keep your carpet looking great after it’s been cleaned. Call this 24-hour free recorded message,” and it’s just maintenance tips.

So, we have many of our Piranha members throughout the country that have things like that. If you really want to see some of these free recorded message examples, you’ll have to go fishing for them, because I don’t have phone numbers right in front of me, nor do I try to put that out publicly, because people pay for these things. And frankly, if you really want to see them, you can go to EthicalServices.com and you can look at some of our Piranha members that are members of Ethical Services, look at their website. And you can see how many of them give free recorded messages out on even their website, or they have consumer awareness videos, and things like that, so you can actually see examples.

But while you’re at it, you might as well hire one of them to get your carpets cleaned. And if you hire a Piranha member that follows my strategies, you’ll see how they use this sort of stuff in all of their different marketing, just like if you were to hire one of Dean’s clients for any of your real estate needs you’ll see the same sort of stuff. One thing I wanted to talk about is another sort of way to use a free recorded message. And talking about Terry Hunefeld, remember that guy?

Dean: Yeah. Do I remember? It was just his birthday a few days ago.

Joe: Yeah. Well, if he was cool, he’d be listening to ILoveMarketing.com.

Dean: I think he does. He does. Hey, Terry!

Joe: Good. Let’s see him make a positive comment on here. When I first met Terry, he was using free recorded messages on answering machines in his basement, running multiple different answering machines, and he was doing a great job. I think he was one of the top, if not the top, real estate agent in Grand Rapids for a period of time. He was selling a marketing course to real estate agents, using the same methods that he had used to become very successful selling real estate, using direct response. He had actually bought one of my marketing programs for carpet cleaners, because he wanted to see if it as a model for selling information products, because I was doing some pretty cool stuff with carpet cleaners. And Terry, of course, was doing some fantastic stuff with realtors.

He was selling a couple hundred thousand dollars a month worth of training course, a really great training course, teaching realtors how to use direct response marketing, using free recorded messages in order to build and grow their business. And I had read his entire course. It was solid, legitimate. Even to this day, that course is fantastic, and a lot of the stuff that you’ve taught yourself, through By Referral Only, that sort of stuff. He was getting $50,000 a month in refunds, at one point. And we were having this conversation. And he was a master at using free recorded messages. And I said, “Terry, why don’t you take the same sort of strategies you’re already using teaching realtors how to market themselves, and use it for after someone buys your marketing program? And put a sticker on the outside of the shrink-wrap or the box, when someone orders your course, and drive them to a free recorded message. Because when you’re selling information products, you can sometimes have really, really powerful marketing. And what we always have to remind our clients is sometimes you have to sell people just as strongly to keep what it is you sold them, or to use what it is you sold them.

Dean: Yeah, to keep and consume.

Joe: Exactly. As it was when they first bought it. So, Terry put together a sticker that basically said, “Warning: call this 24-hour free recorded message welcome line before you open this up.” And he put it on the outside of the shrink-wrap, and he also had another insert, which he put inside it. He tested different variations of it. And I’m doing this off memory. But basically, people would call a free recorded message that was on the shrink-wrap of the marketing package, and it basically was a message like, “Hello, this is Terry Hunefeld. What you hold in your hands is the most powerful marketing course ever created for real estate agents. What I’d like you to do is watch the quick start video,” which was on VHS at the time, “listen to the quick start tape,” which was on audio cassette at the time, “and read the 10-step quick start guide, and you can start getting results in your real estate business, like these people.”

And then, it would go on to play actual live testimonials, case studies from users of the Gold Rush System. And by adding that sticker to the marketing program, on the outside of the shrink-wrap, on the box, an insert that he put inside the packaging, it cut his refunds literally in half. And he ended up saving about $25,000 a month in refunds. See, these refunds weren’t coming back because it was a bad program. It was a great program.

Dean: It was overwhelming. It was a big, beefy program.

Joe: Yeah. So, what it was, is like void of jack-in-the-box jumping out of the box and running someone’s life for them, you want to engage people. And the way that I explain this, it’s kind of like you can imagine a train that’s connected. And by the time someone orders something… And back in those days, it wasn’t even like immediate download delivery. Some of the things even that me and you sell are instant. Someone can buy an eBook, someone can buy a video training course, and boom, they get sent an email.

Dean: This was before the Internet, really. That wasn’t even a viable thing. This was in the mid-90’s.

Joe: Right. Right. So, what happened, and what I want to point out, was just by the use of having a few-minute free recorded message included with the package they had bought, he ended up bringing in, directly to the bottom line, an additional $25,000 a month. And it’s not even the $25,000 that he saved, that didn’t come back as a refund, it was the lifetime value of that client. Because if they kept the program, then they obviously bought more stuff. They would go to his events; they would sign up for his newsletters, they would get additional training. So, anyone that sells anything on a continuity basis, I would encourage you to have the use of a free recorded message for any sort of stick strategy. I taught this to Dean Graziosi; he’s the first New York Times best-selling author to ever have a free recorded message on the cover of a book.

Someone could be in Barnes and Noble, pick up a copy of the book, and they can call the free recorded message, and literally, he could lead generate, if he wants to, right off the book, before someone’s even read it. He could tell them why they need to read the book, that sort of stuff. Eben Pagan has used it on his dating advice products. There’s just tons of people that have used free recorded messages on the outside of product packaging. In my Nightingale-Conant program, I have a free recorded message sticker right on the cover of it. So, as soon as someone buys it, they hear a free recorded message from me, thanking them for investing in the program, letting them know how to get the most out of it.

Even if you don’t sell information products, you can still use this in any sort of format. You can send a postcard to people. You can send an email to people. You can send a text message to somebody after they’ve bought something from you. If you had a restaurant and you’re like, “Hey, sign up for our text messaging thing,” as soon as someone is finished eating there, if you have a little card that’s filled out, you could send them a thank you, along with maybe a “Mention this code, and get a free dessert the next time you come into our restaurant, or whatever.” So, there’s a lot of different applications to use it. I’d love to get your commentary on that, Dean. Then, I want to talk about different ways you could use this to even hire employees.

Dean: I was just going to mention that, as another alternative thing. There’s just so many ways. But thinking, all the way through, if you start thinking about where in your system, in your business, could you use a free recorded message? Even if you use it just in standing things. If you’ve got a retail store or a location where people might come in, and if it’s closed, to have a sticker on the door. “After-hours, call this free recorded message.” And you can tell them whatever you need to tell them.

There’s just so many different ways to use it. I really like that sticker idea on the actual vacuum cleaner. For anything, for anybody, that’s a great thing to use whenever and wherever there’s an opportunity that matches a site-specific type of thing, with your car or with anything like that, that you could put a sticker on the actual location. That just takes kind of thinking through and reverse-engineering what you want to happen. If somebody is going to notice a spot on their carpet, or they’re going to notice something, it’s probably going to be in the context of while they’re vacuuming the carpet. And that’s going to be there, right there, for them.

Joe: Let me point out a couple of examples. For instance, there’s a dealership in the valley that I have bought 3 Land Rovers, 2 Mercedes and a Jaguar from. It’s one automotive dealership that owns a bunch of different dealerships. And there’s a few cool people there, but there’s like idiots that run this thing. And I’m questioning ever buying…

Dean: Like most car dealerships. Right?

Joe: What’s that?

Dean: Like most car dealerships.

Joe: Yeah. Part of is they’re lucky I just really like Land Rovers and that sort of stuff. I think I’m going to buy a BMW next. But I give away cars. I’ve given away a lot of vehicles for my Better Your Best contest and stuff, that I do for my Piranha members at my conferences, which is a whole other subject, we’ll do on contests, on a future edition of a podcast. But I’ve got a great way to just encourage your clients to utilize how-to training stuff. And I’ve taught it to many, many information marketers. Basically, when I go to the dealership and buy a new car, it would be really nice to just know how to use the stuff. If Automotive dealerships actually had like a sticker that was on the dash every time someone bought a new car, or any sort of like walk people through servicing, not only would it be incredibly helpful and beneficial. But it would save them a bunch of manual labor, having to explain to people how to set up their radio, how to set up the navigation system.

What I would do, in a situation like that, is have a sticker that’s put on the dash, and it says, “Call this free recorded message to give you some tips on how to get the most out of your new vehicle, and go to this website so you can see tutorial videos on how to set up this,” that could walk people through. So, where they need a visual, it could show them a visual of different things that they could do with the car. And anyone, like in the appliance business, that sells refrigerators, you name it, that sells anything that has steps, and things that could be explained to people verbally, you could have a free recorded message you put on a business card. “Call this free recorded message for the most frequently asked questions about your new whatever,” or “visit this website to see a video,” and you could drive people to a video that’s sitting there on YouTube. This is not elaborate stuff. Those are just some ways to do it.

I have a friend that owns a fitness center, several fitness stores in the valley, and they sell very high-end treadmills and exercise equipment and stuff. I don’t know to what degree he’s gotten there yet, but I’m hoping he takes it to this level. This is what I told him. He sells True treadmills. I’ll just say it. The name of his company is Fitness For Home Superstores, and his name is Bob. Basically, Bob is one of the top sellers of a brand of treadmill called True, and they’re more expensive than like a treadmill you would see in Sears or Costco. But to the uneducated person, they look identical. You look at an $800 treadmill, why would someone buy a $4,000 treadmill?

And I said, “What you should do is you should get mannequins, and you should put shirts on them, and put a button in the middle of the shirt, and you have like ‘Press this button to hear why this treadmill is so awesome.’ And they press a button, and there’s like a free recorded message literally built into the mannequin, that just is sitting there next to this treadmill, and it educates people on what makes this treadmill different than like an $800 treadmill or a $500 treadmill.” “And if you really want to get kind of cool, you could take this wonderful creation by the very phenomenal innovator, the late Steve Jobs. And you put an iPad or any sort of portable DVD player built into the chest of the mannequin, like a male mannequin, and click a video and watch an educational video about that particular piece of equipment. If I owned a retail store and had an unlimited budget, I would literally do that for clothing; I would do that for shoes, I would do that for anything.

Dean: What I think really is going to come from this is the QR codes, which are just sort of another way of using a recorded message or a robotic way of selling. There are QR codes that go straight to a video on your Smartphone. All these things that we’re talking about are things that are robotic marketing; they’re automated. And it’s the same principles that apply whether it’s a recorded message or whether it’s push a button to start a recording, or to scan a QR code that goes to a video. It’s the same kind of thing.

Joe: Right. At our, I Love Marketing conference, and a lot of the people that attended saw this, we actually had banners, we had – what do you call those A-frame sort of signage’s, other than A-frame signs?

Dean: A-frame sort of signs.

Joe: I think there’s a term for them. But my wonderful staff actually gets all kinds of I Love Marketing branded things printed up for our conference, and we have all kinds of banners…

Dean: The QR codes right on the signs.

Joe: We had the QR codes on all of the signs at the conference. And when people are walking around during breaks or before the event started, they literally could go up to one of our signs, they could get their phone, and they could click on it. And that drives them right to a page where they not only could enter their name and their email, to be put on a list, but it also gave them some free goodies. On business cards, I have a free recorded message on a business card, I have a QR code on a business card, I have a website on a business card. Because what we want on business cards is not name, rank, serial number. You don’t want something boring. You want something actually like I said on the last episode, where we talked about free recorded messages.

And if you haven’t heard that one, go back and listen to it. It was the episode right before this one. One of the things that I talked about is paper’s expensive, inks cheap. So, a secondary reason for response, not just who you are and what you do, but make your message say more. How do you give someone a long sales letter without printing out a long sales letter? You put a free recorded message, or you put a code on the business card.

Dean: Right. Especially if you’re doing things like postcards or things that have limited space. You get so much opportunity that way.

Joe: So, what do you think, Dean, about like the term “secondary reason for response?” When you’re running an ad, going back to the days when there was no Internet, most people would focus on who they are, and they would put their logo or the name of their company, what they do, and they would have features, not really benefits, but what they do. And then they would have a phone number where people would call and hopefully buy or ask them questions, and they would get them into the loop. Whereas like the term “secondary reason for response,” where you would place another sort of response mechanism in… And let me say this, before you respond to it. Like you created a different sort of response mechanism when you created the first opt-in page on the Internet, back in 1997.

You’re like, “Oh, instead of someone going to a website and then looking at a bunch of information, let me set up like a door, where before they could enter into the big space, let’s have them give their name and their email.” It wasn’t a secondary reason for response, it was just another way to think about why someone’s visiting a website. Well, the same thing goes for looking at an ad, the same thing goes for a business card. What are different ways that you can take that space and use that messaging to get people that are not ready to buy right now? But you can at least get them into the funnel. So, what are your thoughts, psychologically, on that?

Dean: Well, I think that when you have something that’s easy for people to respond, even if you’ve got your regular phone number on there, and the ultimate purpose is you want them to call you and schedule an appointment or whatever it is. Having something that’s easy for people to do, that’s sort of risk-free for them to do right away, without having to talk to anybody, it improves your response. We talked, last episode, about how as soon as I put the words “free recorded message” on my ads, I literally got between 3 and 4 times as many calls; literally went from 10 to 12 calls to 30 to 40 calls. And that was a dramatic difference. One of the things that’s kind of a cool thing we did in a Yellow Pages ad that I did for a dentist friend, he was running ads that were just like all the other dentists, like you were saying, how all the ads typically have the logo and the name. If you look at ads in any industry, they all look just like the other ads in that industry. What does Dan Kennedy say about it? It’s like incest.

Joe: Yeah, marketing incest. Everyone looks at what everyone else is doing, and pretty soon everyone gets real stupid.

Dean: Everybody gets real stupid, exactly.

Joe: It sounds kind of offensive to some people, but it is an accurate description of what people actually do in marketing.

Dean: That’s exactly right. So, you look at all of the dentist ads, all of them have a half-page ad or a full-page ad. It was all stuff about their dental practice, serving families or pain-free dentistry. They’d all have something that was making them try and stand out; a prettier logo and a picture of the staff, or something like that. But all of the bullet point things. So, we took a little 1/8 of a page ad, and it looked just like a public service announcement, and it was just black ink on yellow paper. And it said, “Need a dentist right now? Call this free recorded message,” and it had a phone number. And we’d just say, “If you’re having a dental emergency and you need to see a dentist right away, just give us a call,” and go through the whole thing.

But that was a dramatic improvement in the response that she ended up getting from her ad, because she went from a half-page color ad to a 1/8 of a page black and white ad. And got more business from it because she was able to sacrifice who might be looking at the Yellow Pages, to dominate the real reason why somebody would look in the Yellow Pages. If you think about it, the reason somebody’s motivated enough to look through the Yellow Pages and look for a dentist is because they’re in some kind of dental pain. Most people are not proactively looking for a dentist in the Yellow Pages. But realizing that and focusing her attention completely on that, and having a “you don’t have to call the office directly, you can call and listen to this free recorded message, it’s kind of like a relief to people.

Joe: That is exactly what I’m trying to say.

Dean: That’s what I thought. You and I are kind of preaching to the choir here, because we’ve both been sold on using recorded messages. We use them for hiring people. I like your strategy. It’s similar to my strategy, but I like yours better.

Joe: I think most of the ways I use everything is better than yours. I’m totally kidding. No, let me talk about what you just said about the dentist ad. Say that again, because I really want everyone to hear this. And it’s funny, the people reading the transcripts, read this again. So, the dentist ad, the real simple black-and-white said what, again?

Dean: It just had a big headline that said, “Do you need a dentist right now?”

Joe: Okay, so stop for a minute.

Dean: It just said, “Need.” I’m sorry, it was “Need a dentist right now?”

Joe: I thought I told you to stop, Dean.

Dean: Oh.

Joe: I’m kidding. I’m totally kidding. Alright, so whatever business you’re in, “Do you need a blank right now?” Just going off of that…

Dean: Do you need your carpets cleaned right now?

Joe: Right. Exactly. Do you need an IT professional right now? Do you need a haircut right now? Whatever. It is a template. Now, is it going to work 100% of the time? Well, it depends on where you’re running it, where people are seeing it.

Dean: Certainly, in the Yellow Pages. “Do you need a plumber right now?

Joe: Right. Right. You know what would be so funny, too, about Yellow Pages? I would have cleaners – and this happens even today, even probably more so today – where people would not be doing direct mail, they would not be sending out newsletters to their clients, they would not be nurturing their existing database, they wouldn’t have a referral program in place. They would run ads in the Yellow Pages, because they can make a decision – a painful decision – once a year, and let the advertising salesperson sell them a Yellow Page ad, pay monthly for the thing. And then let the Yellow Page people put together the ad that looks just like every other ad in there.

I would hear this so much in the beginning, when I first started selling marketing programs. “Why are you running a Yellow Page ad, but you’re not focusing on anything else?” And we’re talking some people that would pay $1,000, $2,000, $3,000, $4,000, sometimes even a little more, a month for running ads in the Yellow Pages, depending on how big of a city they were in. And they would say, “Well, so my customers can find me. I run an ad, so my customers know where to go.” And I would always think, “Why on earth is your strategy for getting business sending your customers to the area where all your competitors are lurking?” Like they’re all there.

Dean: And yet, they would not think about sending a newsletter to their clients, or a monthly postcard to their clients.

Joe: Yeah. But they wouldn’t do that stuff. And I will see people that will actually spend not only a lot of money, but they’ll spend a lot of time like on an image website. It doesn’t have lead generation; it doesn’t use compelling copy. They don’t have a system of following-up with people robotically. And they will just tinker with it and spend so much time, but you will not see them really putting together a consumer awareness message or putting together a 24- hour free recorded message, or figuring out an ongoing drip system campaign.

And all these things that could work so much better than this lame sort of website, and they think they need it. In the same way, they’re like, “Well, I have to run a Yellow Page ad, because all of my competitors are doing it.” I know many business that, if they reallocated the time and energy that they put into doinking around, and the word “doink” is like nicer, I don’t have to use profanity, but you can imagine what I would typically say.

Dean: Why would you stop now, really?

Joe: Well, I’m trying to be cool.

Dean: Why would you stop now? Of all times to really stop, why would you be concerned about it tonight?

Joe: Because there’s different parts of me that sometimes have morality and others that don’t.

Dean: Can I say, “ILoveMarketing.com, now profanity-free?” Is that really…?

Joe: Absolutely not.

Dean: Let’s not go.

Joe: We should have special profanity-filled episodes of ILoveMarketing, and we should charge for them.

Dean: There you go.

Joe: Just so people can hear.

Dean: XXX.

Joe: Yeah, XXX I Love Marketing. Alright, what was I saying, Dean? Do you remember?

Dean: I’ve lost track.

Joe: What I was saying was people would doink around, and I want to make sure the transcriber gets the word spelled correctly.

Dean: D-O-I-N-K.

Joe: Don’t tell them. We’re trying to test the transcriber here. Okay? If you were to take the same energy that some people put into Facebook, into websites that really aren’t getting a lot of results, and just really get a good selling system down that is trackable, that is direct response, that is compelling, that really speaks to your prospects, to your ideal target market, you don’t even need to have elaborate tools. You just need to have a system that works. The reason we talk about free recorded messages so much, and the reason this sounds like beating a dead horse to so many people, is I will say the Emerson quote: “You ask for a new idea, when you haven’t used the last one that we gave you.”

Dean: Right.

Joe: So, if you’re not using this and you’re not really exploiting it, we’re really talking about this because we want to encourage everyone to go really deep with it. Because I envision a day where thousands of I Love Marketing listeners are just killing their competition, in a good way, using things like this, because their competitors not only are not going to take the time to do it, put it together, get it right, test it, but they’re just literally oblivious that something like that even exists. And then, you can completely run a very successful business under the radar. I speak from experience, past and current. Because currently, as an example, $25K group, at the time that we’re doing this recording, I’ve got 93 people that pay $25,000 a year to be in my $25K group. Another 7 people, it will be a $2.5 million a year revenue business that doesn’t even require a website. I kind of have it for no other reason than just to have a website.

However, most people that have been brought into that were not brought in as the result of a website. They were brought in through direct mail, they were brought in through referrals. We have like John Jantsch, who’s in the $25K group, he’s one of the top referral marketers in the world. So, I’ve got all of these marketers that I learn from them. We did a great episode on referrals with John, which people can listen to on I Love Marketing. So, a lot of these old-school methods take techies, and they don’t get them all excited about it, because they want to hear about some website technique or something, or some social media method. I will tell you, though, these sort of old-school methods are tried, they’re proven.

Dean: You know what’s kind of ironic and funny? It’s that we’re literally 40 episodes into I Love Marketing right now, and I don’t recall that we’ve actually had an episode where we’ve talked about websites.

Joe: Well, we’ve talked about them briefly, a little bit. But yeah, yeah. Do we even need to? We never talk about websites.

Dean: No. I’ve got some cool things to say about websites, so I think we should ramp that up and actually do an episode about websites.

Joe: You’re known as one of the top Internet marketers in the freaking world, and you created the opt-in squeeze page that millions of websites all over the world have used. So, it’s not like you don’t know what the hell you’re doing.

Dean: It’s impressive, isn’t it?

Joe: Yeah. So, let me talk about how to hire employees. Me and the crazy guy, Alex Mandossian, did a marketing program a few years ago, called “Stick Strategy Secrets.” Alex kind of talked me into creating a program where I would document all of these stick strategies that I was using. Because he would hear me talk about what you do after you’ve made a sale, and “Why don’t you create a stick strategy?” I’ll tell you a story. To this day, I still have the number one selling marketing program at Nightingale-Conant. It’s a really great program.

Dean: It’s the only marketing program on Nightingale-Conant. We always forget to say that.

Joe: What’s that?

Dean: You always forget to say that it’s the only marketing program at Nightingale-Conant.

Joe: No, it’s actually not. There’s all kinds.

Dean: I’m teasing. I’m teasing! But that would be funny, if it was.

Joe: Mine’s better than all the other ones, because it sells more. Right?

Dean: Right.

Joe: No, there’s so many great programs at Nightingale-Conant, and I would actually encourage people to get a copy of Earl Nightingale’s “Lead the Field.” That is one of my all-time favorites.

Dean: Even Dan Kennedy mentions that was the first thing that he bought.

Joe: Yeah. And I should mention that during the live webcast that I did for Mr. Dan Kennedy, over $600,000 in sales of his program came in during the time I was emceeing and pitching that program for Dan, as a favor, getting paid nothing. $600,000 came in during my webcast, which I would love to take 100% of the credit for that, but there were other people that were obviously endorsing it to their list. But I’ll tell you; I was the pitch man.

Dean: Did he fly you there on a private jet?

Joe: No. No, actually, it was Southwest. I flew Southwest to San Diego. I like Southwest Airlines. On short flights, I love Southwest Airlines. They’re the one airline that does not… Well, no, Virgin is great also, except I’ve mentioned this before, Virgin does not have a hub in Phoenix for Virgin America, so I can’t really fly Virgin America out of Phoenix. And there’s a few other airlines. The whole airline motto, “We’re not happy until you’re not happy.” Southwest doesn’t follow that. They actually do a pretty good job.

Dean: Squirrel!

Joe: Can I finish? Can I finish here?

Dean: That’s what I’m trying to get you to do. We were talking about the hiring.

Joe: No, no. We’re going to talk about Nightingale-Conant. When I was talking with Vic Conant, who is the owner of Nightingale-Conant, about doing a marketing program, I said, “Hey, I’ll either teach you guys some really awesome stick strategies on what to do after someone’s bought one of your programs. And I’ll put a really cool one together for $50,000, that will cover everything, or we can do a program with me, and I’ll take all of my marketing strategies that, up to this point, I’ve only really taught to niche industries like professional carpet and upholstery cleaners, although they would work for any sort of industry. The only way I was really teaching them was through my monthly Genius Network interviews and through private consulting. Other than that, I was very much a niche marketer. I’d never created a general market sort of training. So, I said, “Either do this for $50,000, or we do a program with me, we work out a really awesome royalty arrangement, and basically we can test all of my ideas with you guys.”

So, one of the ideas was to put a sticker on the outside of the Nightingale-Conant program, that drove people. So, when they have a sticker that is my voice, versus without a sticker, refunds dropped by 3%, which is substantial. So, for every $1-million in programs that are sold, we keep an extra $30,000 because we have a sticker on there that cost literally less than a penny. So, the point is you can use this sort of thing. So, like anyone that has a package, for instance, a template would be, “Warning: don’t open this package yet. Before you open this package, first call and hear a free recorded message from,” you put your name, “at blah-blah-blah.” And there is a link to get a free recorded message on the last episode with COA Networks, Aaron Gerber. And then, you put your first name, “has an important message for you, even before you open this package.” So, one of the things I want to do is get Tony Hsieh at Zappos to start using free recorded messages on the outside of Zappo packaging. I’d love to get Jeff Bezos to start putting stickers on the outside of Amazon boxes. So, all of those things are in the works. But big companies take sometimes months – and, unfortunately, sometimes years – for things to get integrated in. But that’s the deal. That’s the deal. So, let’s go to hiring.

Dean: There we go.

Joe: Hiring. Alex Mandossian, going back to that goofball, we had done this really great program together that was me just talking about all of the different stick strategies. The program’s called “Stick Strategy Secrets.” And it’s like 12 hours of training, with all kinds of things you do after you’ve made a sale, in order to make a sale stick. That’s why it’s called “stick strategy.” It’s like the after-dinner mint at a restaurant. The reason that they give you a mint when you’re done with dinner is they want you to leave with a good taste in your mouth. So, after you’ve sold something to somebody, how do you leave them with a good taste in your mouth. So, a stick strategy is a way to do that. So, that’s why we call it “stick strategies.”

I want everyone listening to think about what are the stick strategies that you use, not only to make sure that people are happy, but that could get them to refer you, that could make sure that they keep coming back, they could add value to the product or service that you sold them. Those are different stick strategies. So, through the process of recording stick strategies with Alex, and doing this, he needed a bookkeeper. So, I taught him a strategy on how to use a 24-hour free recorded message to run an ad. And in this particular case, at the time, because this was back in 2005 or something that he did this, he put together a free recorded message on how to hire a bookkeeper, and he ran it on Craigslist. At the time, the headline was, “Your bookkeeping opportunity of a lifetime.” That is a great template. “Your blank opportunity of a lifetime,” assuming that you have a business that you can say that to. If you have a really crummy job, you probably don’t want to call it “your crummy job opportunity of a lifetime.”

But if you can actually, whatever… Well, it might work. I don’t know. You never know. But basically, he would run this ad, and they would call a free recorded message that says, “Are you dependable, resourceful and responsible? Do you have lots of energy, a good work ethic, and loads of common sense when it comes to bookkeeping and credit management? Do you have at least 3 years of bookkeeping experience with direct response business activities online and offline? Do you also have a list of 2 or 3 solid references to prove it? Are you willing to keep all of the financial matters current, including merchant and checking account reconciliation, client charge-backs, continuity programs, and any other financial-related or conflict management predicaments you will face from time to time? Are you a champion at meeting deadlines? Do you have the talents to build and maintain rapport with high-profile clients and the persuasive skills to overturn refund requests quickly? Do you have the patients to deal with the occasional melt-downs from problem-children clients? Do you have enough emotional fiber to deal with the occasion meltdowns of your employer?”

In that particular case, that would be Alex. And, “Are you experienced with tax laws?” And it would go on and on. Then it would say, “We’re a publishing corporation. No CPA is necessary. Our aim is in long-term relationships. We’re a high-profile marketing company that is growing at a rate of 27% per quarter. This is not a W-2 position.” And it would go on and on. But the point is he could say things in a recorded message that allows people to hear his voice, and that he could use the right tonality, he could say a lot in the space of a small ad, and then he would guide people to what the next step is. He did different things, but he ran this, what I was reading, a template like that, as the actual ad. And then he said, “Your next step: call our 24-hour recorded message and leave your name and phone number, so we can set an initial phone interview.

But before you call the number below, reread this ad twice, and make sure it fits nicely into your philosophy and pocketbook. We want serious inquiries only.” “Key point: if you do decide to call, we want you to sit back, relax, and listen carefully to the entire message. That way, you can become absolutely certain that this position is the right fit for you, because it may be your bookkeeping opportunity of a lifetime.” You can do things within the context of a free recorded message. One of the things that I would do, I think the area where people just lie through their teeth isn’t resumes. Once in a while, we’ll use them because they’ll contain work history and references and education. That’s kind of like a feature, though. But I would tell people, “Write me a letter and tell me why I should hire you.” So, there’s all kinds of ways to sift, sort and screen people, and do it robotically. I have videos that are basically videos about what I’m looking for. And I don’t want someone sending a resume and then us having to interview them and doing all kinds of stuff. I want to sift, sort and screen people robotically.

So, I have carpet cleaners that are hiring carpet cleaning techniques, that used to run ads, and they would have to field all of these phone calls, talk to many people that are losers, in particular cases, not a right fit. That they shouldn’t even be wasting their time talking to or having in-person meetings with, where they could sift, sort and screen people by using free recorded messages or videos in order to hire these people. The cool thing is once you have it set up, if the position ever needs to be filled again, you just drive them right back to the free recorded message. So, once you set up a hiring system using robotics, it’s done.

Dean: Yeah, and you can turn it on, especially if you need to hire somebody for that same position – or any position, really. It’s funny, because parallel to that, I kind of developed a system for hiring that was very similar to this. And we’d have people call and listen to the recorded message, and basically came up with a little formula for the recorded message that could work to hire any. We used it to hire a real estate assistant. So, it would basically say, “Thanks for calling about the real estate assistant position. We’ve set up this recorded message to do 3 things: 1) to tell you a little bit about who we’re looking for; 2) to tell you a little bit about what you’d be doing if you’re chosen for the position; and 3) what to do if you think you might be a match.” “So, first of all, let me tell you a little bit about who we’re looking for,” and you went on and listed the type of qualifications that you have for the person that you’re looking for.

And then, the second part of it is to tell people what you’ll be doing if you’re chosen for the position. “So, here’s what a typical day might look like, or a typical week might look like. You’ll arrive at our office between whatever hours.” You can talk about the dress code, the office environment, or if they’re going to be working from home, or whatever the working conditions are going to be. And then, the third phase of that is, “Here’s what to do if you think you’re a match.” And I like this idea of send me an email or send me a letter, telling me why you’re a match for this.” Essentially, that’s sort of what we were doing, but we would send people an application to fill out. We’d have a calendar, like a week-at-a-glance calendar, and have them highlight, with squares, their optimal working schedule kind of thing, when they’re available.

It’s just such a great thing, when you have a system and an automated way to do something. So, whatever position you’re hiring for, that’s exactly how I would do it. And if you want to use that formula, “Here’s who we’re looking for, here’s what you’ll be doing if you’re chosen for a position, and here’s what to do if you think you’re a match,” those are kind of the 3 big sections.

Joe: Yep.

Dean: It’s funny to me, Joe, how many things we’ve done that are so parallel without the other knowing what we were doing kind of thing.

Joe: Well, I think once you embrace direct response, I think great dancers probably have a lot of the same moves. I think there’s a lot of similarities, and I think a lot of people that listen to I Love Marketing, that’s why we want people to go to Meetup groups. Because I think you can meet other people that are doing very similar sort of things in entirely different industries. And there’s so many little nuances, that I think you can tremendously benefit by being in a discussion group with like-minded people, seeing different applications, having sounding boards. And what’s really great and what I hear from people that are coming to our Meetup groups, is that they don’t feel alone, for one. They’re going to a place where people are understanding them. And because of what we talk about on I Love Marketing podcasts, they have content that they can go and talk about.

So, at the next Meetup groups, people can be talking about how to use a free recorded message to hire an employee. And they show their ads, they can show different websites they’re running help-wanted sort of ads on, and they can show people the free recorded message they’re driving them to. If you have any sort of product packaging or different things, it’s really great because it just expands the thinking and allows you to continually improve. I love the whole concept of Kaizen, however you pronounce it.

Dean: Right, constant improvement.

Joe: Yeah, constant improvement. And the whole saying “Little hinges swing big doors,” I think W. Clement Stone is the original person that said that.

Dean: He said that?

Joe: I think. I think. I could be wrong. But I think it was W. Clement Stone. Little hinges swing big doors. And sometimes, it’s just a little hinge is going to make such a gigantic difference. How much time do we have left, Dean?

Dean: We’ve got about… Oh boy, look at the time here! 5 minutes, we could go, probably, without being too crazy.

Joe: You know what I’m going to do, then? I’m going to save, until next week, a really powerful stick strategy. When I say next week, I should say next episode.

Dean: It reminds me of old Batman episodes, where “Tune in next time, same bat time, same bat channel!”

Joe: That was a cliffhanger.

Dean: That was a cliffhanger. I don’t even know what it is, but I’ve got that whole excitement that this is a cliffhanger. So, go ahead and set up the cliffhanger.

Joe: What I’ll talk about, I will literally give people a strategy on the next episode, because I have such high ADD you’ll have to remind me. Like if we get on to record the next episode and I’m like, “What the hell did we talk about on the last episode,” you’ll be able to remind me.

Dean: You ruined the whole profanity-free thing.

Joe: That’s not a really bad word.

Dean: That’s not. Okay.

Joe: Some people consider it. But it’s not the F word. Right?

Dean: Right.

Joe: Alright. Man, this is a very distractible call, to me. I’m having many ADD moments. But basically, I have a strategy with the exact copy that you would use, for when somebody owes you money. So, if you’re in the collection business and you need to collect money from people, I have a great multi-step sequence of sending a letter to people. And you can do it just in the form of an email, but its way more effective in a physical letter, if you are in the collection sort of arena, where people actually owe you money. And I have people that have had accounts receivables that they’ve not been able to collect on. And if they have tried to collect on them, trying to collect on them in a way without pissing people off or whatever. I have a great, very non-threatening, effective way to collect money. And this particular campaign has helped bring in just probably in the millions of dollars of people that needed to collect money. And I will share the strategy on the next episode of I Love Marketing.

If anyone is interested in stick strategies, I do have a lot of additional training on it, and we do have a program on it. However, we’ll either put a link up on the page or whatever, have people make comments about it if they’re interested, and going deeper with stick strategies. One of the things that I wanted to do is teach a lot of these, so that people can share them and talk about them at Meetup groups, because we do want everyone to go to an I Love Marketing Meetup group, and we would like you to start a Meetup group in your own community, because it is fun. We’ve been doing it here in Tempe, at the time I’m recording this podcast with Dean, we’ve got a couple that we’ve done, and the people love them, and they’re awesome. I’ve even got one tonight that I’m going to actually be at, because I can’t always be at the Meetup groups in Arizona myself because of my travel schedule and stuff. But I have a wonderful staff that runs them when I’m not in town, so I’m going to go to the one that we’re doing.

Dean: It would be great, Joe, to take a little video of the Meetup group tonight, so that people can see what actually happens at a Meetup group.

Joe: I will do it. I will do it, and we will put it online. We might even put it online before this episode goes up. We’ll see. You never know. Alright, so anything else, Dean, that you would kind of wrap up today’s episode with?

Dean: I think we talked about some stick strategies, we talked about some different uses for recorded messages; not just as a lead generator, but just showing what you can do after the sale and what you can do even to hire people. I think it’s just so versatile. There’s so many different ways to use recorded messages.

Joe: Yep. Exactly. So, go to the link, if you want to get a free recorded message set up with the company we recommend, COA Networks. They’ll do you well. Start using it, and give us your feedback, and make some money. And then, keep paying us for these I Love Marketing episodes.

Dean: Yeah, the prices remain the same all the way through.

Joe: Yeah, free. Free. Look, here’s the deal, though. If you do make money with what it is that we’re sharing with you, then go out and do good things in your community. Support some causes that you want to support. Continue to build your business and hire people. Pay more taxes. Everybody loves to do that. Support capitalism.

Dean: And start a Meetup group.

Joe: Yeah, start a Meetup group, support capitalism that’s done in the right way, that creates some great, positive impact to other human beings, and just keep supporting entrepreneurism, because that is what makes the world go around, from my perspective.

Dean: That’s what I’m trying to say, right there.

Joe: Thanks, everyone. Thanks for listening. Thank you, Dean. And I’m out of here.

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