Mike: To digital cafe this is Mike Koenigs I’m here today with Mr. Joe Polish and we’ve even got bottom thirds right now that’s my bottom third its the CEO traffichazard.com right over there look at that camera, this is Joe.
Joe: I love marketing host.
Mike: Host is that okay.
Joe: Yeah I’m here in Mike’s studio this is the first time I’ve actually ever done an interview with Mike or a conversation this isn’t even really an interview because we’re both going to be talking to each other. And you look like you’re sweating a little are you cold?
Mike: I am you know what I just turned on the air conditioning.
Joe: Are you nervous around me, is that what it is?
Mike: I am very nervous just a second here I’ll just dab my brow.
Joe: Yeah, yeah that’s good.
Mike: I’m a good brow dabber.
Joe: People do get intimidated because of my vast marketing knowledge that I have, and when they sit in my presence they’re like whoa.
Mike: Isn’t your middle name vaster?
Joe: I don’t even know what the means.
Mike: Vaster than thou.
Joe: Okay, gotcha.
Mike: Yeah so the air-conditioning will continue to kick on here we’re in on the weekend, Sunday morning in fact and we’re going to be talking about some cool stuff.
Mike: So what I’ve got here is just so you are aware we don’t even have operators here today, we’re remote controlling this whole thing.
Joe: So what is this so I mean you have a pretty intense I guess understanding of not only marketing and delivery systems but video and audio and editing you’ve made movies before, there’s all kinds of crazy stuff that you do. Where are we, what are we doing so for people that are watching this on Genius Network, I love marketing wherever you decide to put this, what are we doing?
Mike: Okay well basically we’re at my new studio I just finished building this, and I’ll say like any technology thing there’s always a bit of a, let’s just put it this way always making tweaks and refinements. But my goal is to create a studio that I could produce a show with zero operators with zero editing so.
Joe: Do you want to be cooler than Dean Graziosi?
Mike: I already am, he already admits it he walked in here he called me on a lot of expletives and he.
Joe: I love that I love when marketers are actually at each other’s.
Mike: Oh yeah I know it’s fantastic. So he shouted expletives at me I made him a video and he said well I’m going to knock everything off that you’re doing right now. But honestly he said you’re three years ahead of me and what the whole objective here was to basically grab the most cost-effective high-definition equipment and be able to produce shows like what we’re doing right now which is essentially going to be a podcast and be able to do live broadcasts. So what I’m able to do like I’m switching lives so I just switch you can look at the preview down here that’s the main view which is the center camera and I can switch to you if you’re looking at me. And then I can switch back to me for a shot. So I’m actually basically controlling this.
Joe: Can I do a death stare right into the camera?
Mike: Yeah, you can do a death stare right now.
Joe: That was that’s powerful.
Mike: Oh yeah.
Joe: If you’ve watched up to this point there you go you got it, that’s it, that is profound.
Mike: Its powerful marketing is what it is but you’ll notice that I just cut to the center shot right now so both of us can look at your audience at the same time.
Joe: Pretty cool.
Mike: And I can turn to this camera like that, hi how you doing and then I can turn back to you and you can look at the other camera, not that one that one there give it a death stare, death stare, man look at that.
Joe: Look at that.
Mike: But then we can turn back to this camera right now and we’re together.
Joe: Pretty awesome. So people that are watching this that may never obviously get anywhere near this level of production and do this, how is this relevant to them, why should they care?
Mike: Well, the reason why is I believe right now a person can take an iPhone and shoot a video and broadcast it to the entire connected planet. So you’ve got 6 point something billion people like you just did you did a mini-tour.
Joe: For the first time ever I’ve always used flip videos just because they’re easier for me to hold and point at myself and I like pointing at myself and talking that’s kind of yeah. And so but for the first time ever just a few minutes ago right before we started I actually shot on my iPhone a video and then uploaded it to its uploading right now as we speak to YouTube which you know I mean of course I just never had done that before. So the point is even with I’ve created hundreds of videos, but I’m always trying to learn new ways to get information out there.
Because one of the things we’ll even touch on is the whole process of canning and cloning yourself which is an original Gary Halbert statement as a marketer you want to take your message, you want to take your story, just like musicians you know would record music stamp them out, they’d can and clone themselves. Well anyone that has anything to share for profit in a business education mission whatever any sort of way that you can get it out to the world all the better and its becoming easier and easier. So yeah that kind of leads into your understanding of why to do this and how to do this in more I guess gigantic impactful higher-quality ways.
Mike: Yeah, I’d say like for me some of the best resources in the world right now TED talks for example are one of them other than Genius Network and 25k group and I love marketing of course.
Joe: Yeah yeah, I mean those are the standards.
Mike: But in addition to that what you have are take a look at like TED talks I think should be taught in every school in the world.
Joe: I agreed, TED’s awesome.
Mike: And its ideas worth spreading, that’s their tagline. The next one is Khan University why because they’re giving away high-quality education starting from one plus one and then moving all the way up to I mean you can go and do advance biochem and I believe like nuke physics, plus computer science, plus I mean advanced biochemistry. You can literally get a free college education and I would probably suspect its probably better than you can get at many universities completely free of charge. So the entire world.
Joe: You know what that’s a big statement to and the one that would annoy certain people.
Mike: I think that’s good.
Joe: Yeah and I agree because and you say most universities maybe there’s a handful that really teaches great entrepreneurism.
Mike: A hundred or a thousand but whatever it is yeah I think right now and I’ve said this publicly I believe tenure is a filthy word okay, I believe a teacher who only teaches is irrelevant. Teachers unless their teaching people how to think you know liberal arts has a tremendous amount of value and I’ll never take away from that and obviously I’m making a far-reaching statement here, but the whole idea is I respect teachers who still do, okay. Because if you’re not constantly testing and refining especially in this day and age processes and ideas a lot of them are going obsolete, and I believe the world needs problem solvers now more than anything and leaders. And I don’t know if true problem-solving and true entrepreneurial skills are taught in schools right.
Joe: Well let me say something to that too because you know.
Mike: And then we’ll tell everyone maybe what we’ll do is then we’ll tell you what you’re going to learn in this fabulous video, because if we haven’t lost you by now because we’re just a bunch of stinkbugs well two stinkbugs sitting here, two little stinkbugs.
Joe: I’ll say this there’s that Stephen Covey line which is to know but not to do is not to know to know, but to understand but not to do is not to understand. And its one thing about if someone’s actually you know I know that I’ve never been shot but I have a pretty good sense that I don’t need to get shot in order to know that would be a bad thing.
Mike: That’d be bad thing, definitely a bad thing.
Joe: There’s certain things you just don’t per se do in order to really get it, however when it comes to actually teaching success principles or teaching technique even if you don’t there’s many things that I’ve done in the past that I’ll teach other people to do that I’ve already gone through. But yeah certainly I mean I want to if I’m going to learn the skill of making money which is much of what we teach people how to do I actually want to learn advice from people that have actually made money.
Joe: If I want to ask advice on how to maintain a relationship I don’t want to ask my friends that have been divorced 15 times you know that sort of deal. So it applies to education here too, and there’s just a massive amount of education being given to people to do things from people that have never done it and so that’s my whole point.
Mike: All right. So maybe what we’ll do is I’ve got on the teleprompter in the back here a couple of questions some ideas that got thrown around her before we began. And what I’m going to do is just kind of read through some of them, we’ll decide what we’re going to talk about today. So we’ve actually provided some value, and then we’ll get back to just pure tomfoolery, and I don’t know about shenanigans but we’ll say tomfoolery so.
Joe: Isn’t lame how Frank Kern actually stole that use of that word from us.
Mike: I think he took that from me or did he take that from you.
Joe: I don’t know I just wanted to bust on Frank because he’s not a very nice man.
Mike: He is, he’s a terrible terrible man. All right so here we go I know one of the things that I want to talk to you about which I think everyone that I know would like to know is. You were just at a Dan Kennedy event, you closed how much of the room?
Joe: Okay, there were 1200 people in the room, 500 stood in line in order to get my stuff.
Mike: But something broke but we’ll get to the details.
Joe: We ended up getting about 258 sales and if you look at it in terms of people in the room were all 1200 individual people, no there were many couples there were people that were with companies.
Mike: So big numbers, but I want to find out the how like how you did it without giving it away right now because we’re just going to go through it, because we got a list of stuff. So one of them is this is just an idea I mean you’re arguably the best connector that I know.
Joe: Some people say that about me, I won’t say it about me.
Mike: I read it in The New York Times and I’m just repeating what I read. But what I would say is networking is an incredibly valuable skill to have, another one is what some ways that businesses are leaving money on the table, what kind of just like quick tips. A couple things that we have in here the difference between, can small businesses use internet marketing, difference between email marketing, social network marketing, got some ideas here.
So what I’ll do is we’ll just kind of figure this out as we go along, I think we’ll just dive into it and we’ll invent stuff and maybe what we’ll do is we’ll say we’ll do about an hour interview or so. That will be good valuable content we can share with our friends, and why don’t we begin with the Dan Kennedy thing because I think that’s a juicy nugget. And I’m always interested in understanding like how to close more effectively, how to sell more effectively, the psychology of the sell, and you’re not a hard salesman at all, you don’t hard sell.
Joe: Never and I don’t and frankly there are some people that are very skilled at doing dog and pony shows and getting very hard-core to the point of polarizing and actually.
Mike: We don’t know any of those people, but in case we would we’ve definitely heard of things like that before.
Joe: Yeah and look I understand the game, and when I say the game I mean I’ve read lots of sales training books, I’ve been a salesperson since I was probably born I guess, but I don’t think people are born salespeople.
Mike: Selling hotdogs to vegetarians for example.
Joe: I used to, I mean I did all the things that a kid would do from selling newspaper subscriptions door-to-door to, I sold Kirby vacuums for a couple weeks in college, and then I got a more professional sales job. But I’ve been selling my whole life, and selling of course is just literally persuading people to do what it is you want them to do and hope that you have something that they will in the business world give you money for. But everything a sales job, every word that comes out of a person’s mouth is either designed to attract someone to you or repel someone.
And part of the selling in business like for me I have the highest level mastermind group in the world for direct response marketers, people you know the criteria make a net income of $1 million a year or more is kind of what we aim for. We’ll fudge it a little if there’s someone that just is super awesome, but they’ve all got to have money, I mean they’ve all have got to be able to cut a check and it’s not even about cutting a check.
So I deal with very high-level sort of a sales very high price sales, and so part of my marketing there is not about you know trying to get everyone to pay attention to the message, it’s actually very laser targeted and most of it is to repel, to sort and screen people. So to go to the Kennedy event I was actually doing a presentation on the seven things that I learned from Gary Halbert, seven of the top things that I learned from.
Mike: And for anyone who doesn’t know who Gary Halbert is just the short version.
Joe: Gary Halbert was a brilliant copywriter who actually was self-taught I mean he learned how to put words on paper before the internet, big direct mail guy and just understood the psychology of how to sell people using words. And Gary would always say that any problem in the world can be solved with the right sales letter. And when I first heard that I didn’t really quite believe it, but I had my first proof that that is true even brought it here because I had this when I was doing a live webcast yesterday I had this with me. My very first Gary Halbert letter, this is a template this is just you know something that I offer my clients that are professional carpet and upholstery cleaners, because one of the niches that I started my direct response business in was I actually was a dead broke carpet cleaner living off credit cards. I was good, I was certified I had the technical skills, but I didn’t know how to get people to give me money, and I started reading the Gary Halbert newsletter that a friend had given me by accident.
So it was a total fluke how I actually fell into learning marketing, pretty much in the same way its a total fluke how I ever got into the carpet cleaning industry because its kind of one of those accidental industries. I wasn’t growing up saying I want to own a carpet cleaning company, I mean I just needed money and I kind of its hard work and its one of those. Lots of what people do in their life even if they went to college what they end up doing is not what they end up doing.
Mike: You can have a podcast called I love the smell of cat pee for example that would be for.
Joe: Some people may perhaps subscribe to that, that’s an idea we should talk about that later that was powerful that was, I love the smell of cat pee. Well here’s what’s even kind of funny about cats I’m allergic to cats and when I had my carpet cleaning business I used to go and clean these apartment complexes for 20 to 25 to 30 dollars a unit then they would pay me in a very timely manner you know 60 to 90 days later on these accounts receivable thing.
And I live in Arizona and when you’re allergic to cats you like wheeze right because you can’t breathe, and I remember times when I would be working 12 hour days and there be one or two units that would be freaking littered with like cat hair and cat urine and smell like crap. And I’d be carrying this portable steam cleaner upstairs running an extension cord all the way to the bottom. And its literally like cleaning carpets in a sauna because there’s no air-conditioning right, and then you’re allergic and you’re wheezing at the same time that is freaking hard work.
Mike: Sounds awesome to me.
Joe: There is something that comes out of ever being in a really miserable situation and something you hate where you kind of are motivated to do something about it.
Mike: That’s the story of for me the moment I became conscious let’s say around 4 or 5 until I left no offence Eagle Lake, Minnesota, but it was a big motivator because growing up with 35° below zero I was never built nor ever designed to be in anything cold and I was a walking expletive. I mean everything that came out of my mouth rhymed with truck, started with F, and I cursed weather I mean seriously like my entire life. So anyway now that everyone has this valuable information and they know about cat pee and marketing let’s get into the nuggets because.
Joe: Well, let me say this then. So my first example of copy to kind of tie-in Gary Halbert was I actually all I was doing was advertising price, that was the only way I knew how to, the worst offer in the world is no offer at all, the second-worst offer is price because the only criteria you’re giving someone is price. So I had to figure out ways to communicate why someone should do business with me other than price and I paid a copywriter $1800 to write my very first consumer awareness guide.
And I learned about the concept of can and clone yourself, how do you replicate your sales message because everyday people would call not every day. But when I was getting any calls at all people would ask how much do you charge and I would explain what method I used, how I clean carpets its the same sort of stuff. And so I was like it’s all the things that people don’t know that they don’t know that as a marketer it’s your job to convey to them to position yourself differently than competitors.
So I was like I came up with the seven questions to ask a carpet cleaner before you invite him into your home, eight mistakes to avoid when choosing a carpet cleaner. How to void four carpet cleaning rip-offs, the difference between value and price, crawling critters and crud a guide to the slime, grime and livestock that’s seeping, creeping and galloping through your carpet. All these things and I put them into a consumer awareness guide so that people can make an informed intelligent decision. Because that’s all that people want to make is an informed intelligent decision not be.
Mike: Not be ridiculed by their family for example.
Joe: Yeah, people don’t want to make idiotic decisions. The number one question in all people’s minds is who can I trust, and your job as a marketer is to convey trust so that people will do business with you.
Mike: Is that really the case, is that really what people have going is who can I trust?
Joe: Well, that’s one, I think it’s the number one, there are many reasons I mean sometimes people may not trust someone at all but they want to associate with the person because they’re a celebrity. You know many sort of dysfunctional purchases where people. I mean its like someone’s not going to buy cigarettes from a tobacco company because they trust the tobacco company, they’re addicted to nicotine. So I’m saying when it comes to ethical legitimate buying decisions where there is a competitor, meaning if the world supply of toilet paper evaporated tomorrow god forbid that would ever happened, but do you know I think toilet paper wasn’t even invented until the 1800s. What would a guy like you have done prior to that?
Mike: You know what rabbit’s lots of rabbits, bunnies and kittens. I’m sorry about that I just can’t help myself Joe.
Joe: I love these tangents.
Mike: You bring out the best in me I just want you to know that.
Joe: I bring out the best in everybody.
Mike: You do.
Joe: Okay so here’s the thing though if you have a product or service where there is no other available option you don’t need to be a savvy marketer, you don’t need an opt-in page, you don’t need compelling copy, you don’t need testimonials. If the world supply of toilet paper ran out tomorrow and you have a garage full of it you need a cardboard sign you put it in your front lawn you can probably sell it for $50 a roll right. Now if you are in a situation where you do have competition, where there are other available options where people really don’t need to buy what it is you’re selling, especially like carpet cleaning.
People always say well I’m a doctor I’m a web designer what does you know you’re talking about carpet cleaning what does that have to do with me. And I’ll tell you man, when you have to learn how to sell a product or service that nobody wants to buy you have to figure out certain elements, and if anyone has something even remotely more exciting or sexy than a carpet cleaning service they can probably apply these techniques. Now how does that apply back to the thing we originally started with the Dan Kennedy.
Mike: The Dan Kennedy thing so here you are, we got the seven things.
Joe: So it’s how to avoid four carpet cleaning rip-offs, six costly misconceptions about carpet cleaning, eight mistakes to avoid when choosing a carpet cleaner that sort of stuff. Now when someone would open this up typically before figuring out how to use copy and I will tell you words are powerful, copy is the oxygen that makes all of your marketing work. Anything that I say here on video is still copy, if anyone’s getting anything out of me talking right now it’s because I’m saying certain things and if I said different words or I talked Chinese and someone you know it wouldn’t make any sense.
So you know there’s this great line which is the only thing worse than singing the wrong note is singing it louder. So you’ve got to have the right copy okay, and so a lot of people think selling is yelling, like the entire auto industry they don’t do very sophisticated good education based marketing, there like low price get someone, sick a salesperson on him. And people love to be sold they hate to be pressured, and so whenever someone associates pressure or being talked in with selling they tend to get this bad attitude towards marketers. So how do you actually this is.
Mike: And I think the distinction here is salesman versus marketers because there is a big difference between them.
Joe: Oh of course.
Mike: In my opinion because everyone hates an obnoxious salesperson, but I would argue that people love to be marketed to especially with the level of sophistication we have. I mean auto industry.
Joe: I’ll tell you think let’s take a heterosexual male okay.
Mike: Let’s just pretend.
Joe: And he’s single and there is a very attractive woman that would be attractive to him and she came up to him and used pressure used selling used subtle whatever, but just showed some level of interest on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being very high how 1 being you know.
Mike: One being the level of interest you get for example when you walk into a.
Joe: I love how we can insult each other. This is the Grand Torino version of how to do a I love marketing interview with Mike. So the thing is most people would not perceive that as pressure because they’re interested in it. See when someone really wants something and you really speaking to them and you understand you know Robert Collier who wrote a book years ago.
Mike: I still have that its a fantastic book.
Joe: One of the greatest lines ever as a marketer as a copywriter you want to enter a conversation that’s already existing in your prospects mind. Whenever you enter a conversation that’s existing in your prospects mind its not perceived as selling, it’s not perceived as pressure, now can someone switch it around and become very annoying yeah. So it’s not that selling is bad, it’s how it’s done, just like a knife can be given to a murderer or a knife can be given to a surgeon, you can do completely different things with it. You can use a gun to go and hunt for food or you can use it to rob people. It’s not the selling or the marketing that’s bad, it’s the application of it. The problem is people hear marketing and selling and they instantly come up with a negative connotation with it.
Mike: Yeah and I’m going to frame this a little bit because what I want to do is obviously as much fun as we have I want to make sure we’re providing that value. Which is, A, you made a platform presentation, which basically means you have a slideshow and you kind of went through it and you ended up making an offer for a $497 profit.
Joe: $497 it was the Gary Halbert XXX audios which is a consultation I paid Gary Halbert in 1997 $11,500 to spend two days with him and John Carlton were there and a couple of other just really bright marketers were there. And I recorded all of this for my personal use never thinking I would turn it into a product had the whole thing transcribe. Its brilliant I mean it’s just some of the greatest marketing wisdom on psychology ever, but I had that because Dan Kennedy got his actual first a copywriting job from Halbert’s company Halbert’s Inc. Way back when paid him $500 I think that was Dan’s first copywriting gig.
And so Dan really was good friends with Gary, and Gary became one of my very best friends and John Carlton was probably Gary’s dearest friend in the whole marketing world and so I had these recordings, these audios that are immensely valuable to any marketer. And so here’s an audience Dan Kennedy’s clients Glazer-Kennedy and it was a Glazer-Kennedy event and basically so I was going to speak on what I learned from Gary Halbert and I was going to make an offer for those recordings. And so what I did some of the methodologies of how I did it, the real kicker is I taught robotic marketing strategies like can and clone yourself.
See I could talk to people all day long about how to choose a carpet cleaner, but it’s much easier if they read a consumer awareness guide, if they read this in advance then they are if all they care about is low price they’re not going to hire me or one of the higher price cleaners because I have thousands of cleaners all over the world that use consumer awareness guides and I say thousands of service businesses. When Yellow Pages and believe it or not even in this day and age when people think Yellow Pages are dead I still have lots of people that make multiples of a return on their Yellow Pages. Because there are three things you need in order to sell something, you need a product or service, you need a sales pitch and you need a delivery system. So Yellow Pages is a delivery system, consumer awareness guides is a delivery system, a website is a delivery system, a video like this is a delivery system, social networking, email marketing, a website is simply an electronic brochure in a lot of ways. So you know you need a sales process.
So basically it’s all can and clone, and so when I was teaching the audience I was actually teaching them how to automate your marketing. Because selling is what you do when you’re on the phone or face-to-face with somebody, marketing is what you do to get someone on the phone or face-to-face with you properly positioned, the keyword is position. The reason I sold so well is the audience was well-positioned because I taught them valuable stuff, I taught them how I was delivering it to them and then I used a video sales letter. I think at that presentation I reinvented the way the people will sell from the platform because I didn’t even do it myself I actually played a video that my very good friend and brilliant marketer probably the best guy in the world for understanding.
Mike: Next to me of course.
Joe: Well in this area this guy is the best his name is John Benson and John is a ninja, and he just understands he calls them ugly videos. It’s just literally PowerPoint or keynote black text with maybe a little bit of red and you talk and that’s what you see, and I literally played a 7 1/2 minute video. Now if I just would have got up on stage and played and played a video sales letter would I have made some sales, maybe from people that are really already understood Gary Halbert. But what I needed to do first it’s not just about showing a video because I’ve seen people attempt to do this since I’ve done this and they just pitch the audience they don’t give them any value whatsoever they don’t properly teach them.
Mike: They didn’t pre-sell them.
Joe: Right they don’t pre-sell. And so what I did was I taught the audience not only what I learned from Halbert like use theater in your marketing and can and clone yourself, and you know any problem in the world can be solved with the right sales letter and I really explained what that meant. For instance if you have a son right and say your son and hopefully this will never happen, but say your son needed a kidney transplant right and there’s a waiting list. I guarantee you because you’re a marketer and you understand how to write copy you could come down to the studio and record a video and you can put a plea out there, a communication out to the world make sure it lands into the right medical establishments the right people watch it. You have a higher likelihood of having your son get a kidney transplant or finding a kidney then someone that doesn’t have that marketing knowledge.
Now we can say that’s unfair well yeah maybe it is unfair according to what though, if you know what you can do with marketing is incredible. When you learn how to can and clone yourself. I was limited by the clock, it doesn’t matter how good of a salesperson I was if I talked to someone on the phone or go visit them face to face you’re limited by the clock. But with the right video, with the right sales letter you can talk to 10 people, 100 people, 1000 people, sometimes millions of people all at one fell swoop. You know on Ilovemarketing.com we do an interview with I did an interview with Richard Branson on Necker Island and we put that video up. Within a week 9000 people had viewed that video, what if I had to distribute that one-on-one I mean you can’t do it.
So that’s what I taught the audience, and so after I set the stage by giving tremendous value and showing them actual techniques that they can use before I ever asked them to give me money I said to them everything I’ve been talking about using free recorded messages, because I taught them how to, see because I actually told the story of how one of the first things I used was a consumer awareness guide and then I turned the consumer awareness guide into a 24 free recorded message. See because when I first created this there was no Google, there was no internet, I literally had to put stamps on stuff and mail it to people. And so when someone would call oh you know and start ask how much you charge and I’ll say well you know what’s more important to you, value or price.
Well it’s kind of a tricky question because what are they going to say price they’re going to say well you know I would engage them in a conversation. But I hated that because I could spend 20 minutes explaining how to choose a carpet cleaner and then you could always hear a question like this well that sounds good let me talk to my husband or wife and I’ll call you back. I didn’t want to deal with that, I mean my time is gone but a robot that can deliver a 10 minute recorded message or a 10-minute thing on this is much better.
So I was originally mailing this to people but if they wanted their carpets cleaned the next day they needed something instantaneously, now with the internet you don’t have to worry about it this is all automated. But back then so I paid this copywriter another $250 to take the consumer awareness guide and turn it into a free recorded message script and all of a sudden I had a 10 minute recorded message on how to choose a carpet cleaner. And when people would call I’d say call and listen to this message and then it would sift, sort and screen people and only deliver people to me that were pretty interested, pre-motivated, prequalified, and predisposed to give me money.
And my goal with that speech was by the time I played the video sales letter I wanted to deliver so much value to that audience and I wanted to teach them marketing techniques so that they were pre-interested, pre-motivated, prequalified, and predisposed and one thing I did is I said and by the way I’m going to pitch you. Some of you here are going to give me money, and I’m not even going to ask you for the money live like I’m talking to you now a robot is going to do it. And I basically told them what I was going to do. And then I literally said okay now watch this and while you’re there and people were freaked out the coolest thing is the camera crew kept the video cameras running even after they shut off my mic. And you see the line all around the ballroom and over 200 people dropped out of line because they thought they were going to miss out on the offer there was not enough people to actually get the order forms it was crazy. And so the staff there.
Mike: So you would have had about 500 orders out of the 1200 people there.
Joe: I say between 400 to 500, but we weren’t expecting it. First off I was happy with it I donated a bunch of the money to the Make-A-Wish Foundation as a result of it I said $100 from every order would go to the Make-A-Wish Foundation because I’m a big supporter of Make-A-Wish and so it was supercool. But I was happy because it proved that all of the robotic marketing that I was teaching people there works in all kinds of environments because I even said I’m doing manual labor here, I mean that’s selling live that’s not a sales letter. I mean I’d love to figure out how to actually just play a video and not have to show up and everyone just gives me a ton of money in a live environment.
Mike: Automated webinars reels in some customer, there you go.
Joe: For instance this is one of can I show this.
Mike: Yeah totally. So explain what is it and so before we do that I want to just summarize what we just learned here because I think that’s the nugget that we want promise in this broadcast, which is number one you’re doing a platform presentation at the Kennedy-Glazer event 1200 people in the room, you make an offer for the Gary Halbert system which really was a consultation you paid for in the late 90s $11,500 and you’re selling the transcripts and the recordings for $500.
Joe: With a quick start guide and some things I threw in some other bonuses.
Mike: Yeah and look I’ve got the product it’s amazing, it’s really good.
Joe: It is amazing and everyone here should buy it, I mean I’m not going to tell them where to get it if they really care enough they’re going to track it down.
Mike: Well here’s what we’ll do we’ll make sure that there’s a link because I’m going to make this video available to my friends.
Joe: I want to pretend I’m the sales prevention department and not give them a link, just make them, no I’m kidding whatever whatever.
Mike: So what ended up happening is you essentially taught the robotic marketing process to the audience, and there are seven steps to doing that is that?
Joe: Well, there was lots of things I learned from Gary but I taught like seven things that I thought were most valuable.
Mike: Okay so and then what you did is you said okay now I am going to sell you something right now, you’re completely transparent about it. I’m going to use everything that I talked about here and watch this video and then I’m going to ask for your money and I’m not going to do it live.
Joe: Right exactly and I also right after Dan Kennedy introduced me because he actually did introduce me I actually dissed on Dan a little bit as soon as he got off the stage because you don’t want to mess with Dan he’s too quick, he’s too witty and he’s one of the most intimidating people on the planet.
Mike: I’ve received two angry faxes from Dan in my life and if you receive that apparently either means you’re doing something very bad or very right but either way.
Joe: Yes, no Dan is the most he’s one of the most interesting people on the planet, he’s speaking at my conference this year and I’m actually going to be co-authoring a book with him here in a few months, but basically you know he’s I had a diss on him a little. So I said when he was getting off stage I said Dan if you were to get into a fight with the Bill Glazer do you think you could take him and he’s like I can take you. And then he started insulting me a little bit but he was off the state so I had better positioning it’s all about positioning even if you’re going to diss Dan Kennedy.
Mike: Very good.
Joe: That’s a lesson that everyone should take.
Mike: I agree all right. So bottom line is the robot makes the pitch, around 500 people or so show up they stand in line to order this thing and there’s a limited amount of time.
Joe: And we got all this on video, people can go on YouTube and even watch a video clip of these people standing in line.
Mike: Yep. So yeah and again you showed to me it’s awesome.
Joe: It’s insane.
Mike: It is its darn good. So let’s move on to the next segment which is your puller talking hard thing.
Joe: See the whole speech was how to do robotic automated marketing right. Because marketing is selling in advance okay, people should really if they are out there selling but they do not have any mechanisms that are creating well-positioned people then there’s a lot more possibilities that they can add. And I call it ELF marketing Easy Lucrative and Fun versus HALF which is Hard Annoying Lame and Frustrating. The way that most people sell stuff is they have a hard annoying lame and frustrating or sometimes they make a lot of money but it’s hard annoying lucrative and frustrating. And everything that I think about is this ELF, can I communicate robotically, do I have to be there, will this sell for me 24 hours a day seven days a week. That’s what I’ve taught, I’ve made people millionaires, I even have liked ELF made millionaires not self-made but ELF made, where they actually become millionaires using easy lucrative and fun marketing. Isn’t that cute, think of a little smurf right now, now that you’re blue you are like my little smurf right now.
Mike: I have bunnies jumping around in my tummy and I’m feeling an immense amount of joy fuzzy. I mean feathers, crystals, fuzzy bunnies jump and slippers, I’m thinking about slippers right now so.
Joe: We are bonding with a very unique group of people on this video right now, I hope they like it, I hope they have a sense of humor. If you don’t have a sense of humor I feel very very bad for you because it is hard to get through life. You know what one of the things I have a friend Tim Ferriss, you know in his original book The 4-Hour Workweek there’s some cartoon.
Mike: Interviewed him at the studio at the other studio.
Joe: Yeah and there’s this one cartoon that says you know the problem with being a super genius is dealing with all the stupid people in the world you know, and I just wanted to throw that in there because I think it’s funny. So I’m teaching the whole audience ELF marketing strategies and right before I actually played the video sales letter I talked about okay back then, you know back in 1992 was when I was using my first free recorded message. Let’s fast-forward to today and I still love direct mail, I love holding things in my hands there’s less noise in people’s mailboxes. There’s so much effort and energy put into online marketing, the web, social networking, and the term hits like how many hits did you get on the website. I mean I’ve always loved the phrase you know what does hits stand for, do you know what hits really stands for now.
Mike: No what is it?
Joe: How idiots track success. And so its like how many hits have you actually got, its like well who cares. How many people are actually do you have a relationship with, how many people are giving you money. And we live in this world where oh I have like 10 bazillion friends on Google+ or you know Facebook or whatever.
Mike: I’m making a motion off camera right now that no one can so.
Joe: You should see this its powerful. But anyways I said okay fast-forward to today where everyone’s using internet marketing how do you still use off-line techniques but really create impacts. So one of the things that Gary Halbert would always say is add theatre to your marketing, I love theatre that means attaching things to a sales letter. I used to send out coconuts I haven’t done this in a while, like the shell coconuts in with a smooth you know. Put a black marker don’t be a nut call this 24 hour free recorded message with an 800 number, and we literally would staple priority mail labels on there and we would literally mail coconuts. When someone gets a coconut in their mailbox and the post office will deliver this, I mean it tends to go into the A policy. Gary Halbert said people of America probably all over the world sort their mail out over a wastebasket.
And what you want in order to get your mail like read is you want it to land in the A pile which is everything that is personal or appears personal versus the B pile which is everything that is junk or appears like junk. So one of the techniques I taught in the Glazer-Kennedy thing was a new method of using theatre in direct mail to promote my 25k group. So I’ve done a couple of events with Paula Abdul me and Brendon Burchard did a couple of seminars with her called star power we charged five grand a person you know teaching Paula how to be an info marketer great stuff. And so Paula is in my 25k group and so we decided to come up with talking cards. So there are pictures of me and it says a special message from Paula Abdul and Joe Polish, I’m not going to open it up all the way I’ll open it and it says if you’re a high-level entrepreneur who wants to join the most exclusive mastermind group in the world for entrepreneurs visit the25Kgroup.com. We also have 25kgroup.com but at the 25k group it’s cool because it drives, and there’s a video currently and I may switch this out with Daniel Amen who’s in the group Jeff Walker, Dean Jackson the author David Bock.
Mike: Someone else even more famous than all those guys combined.
Joe: Yes, but here’s the point. So here’s the thing I wanted to like actually bypass someone actually having to call a free recorded message, I wanted them to get pitched the moment they opened up the thing. Now, this is clever everyone that has half a brain will see what I’m about to show them and listen to this and see the application, its a blatant pitch for my 25k group, but it’s in Paula’s voice and this is what they hear listen.
Paula: Hey this is Paula Abdul, Joe Polish’s 25K group has changed my life I know that’s a bold statement from someone who has had what most would consider a lifetime of success, but its true. See I was looking for my next reinvention and was seeking the best business insight to take my career to the next level and I knew with Joe’s group I would be surrounded by the brightest business minds in the world because its designed that way. I knew I’d have Joe’s cellphone and access to his network and Rolodex and all the resources like every 25K member.
I talked to a few folks before joining and they said if I didn’t make my money back from the very first morning that they’d be shocked, well they were right in fact I’ve made some multi-million dollar deals with several 25K members right now. This is such a special group because it’s a close family of world-class talent driving and supporting each other to their best success. If Joe invites you take the same advice I was given, don’t think about it just be daring and do it. If you want to know more about Joe Polish and my experience visit the website that’s included with this card.
Joe: So one of the techniques that we’re actually testing is we’re doing personalized URLs which is like a website that’ll say 25Kgroup.com/a person’s name and then they will go there and it will be specifically targeted with their name that’s very personal. Now the point is that requires a lot that requires going overseas and getting these produced, that requires getting Paula or anyone to actually give you an audio a testimonial whatever you’re going to do. But this is theatre, when someone gets something like this in the mail and their target that’s powerful. It is someone that’s well known, its someone saying really nice things about me, it’s driving them to a website, it’s capturing their name. I mean there’s a lot that’s going on here. But this is not complicated, this is ELF marketing, and how difficult would it be to actually do this one at a time, what am I going to do call Paula and say hey Paula everyone you talked to I’d really like you to tell about 25K, but that is canning and cloning Paula. That’s canning and cloning me and that’s putting it out there.
And so I taught several of those sort of methodologies and then I sold a program from Gary Halbert which taught all kinds of stuff on how to do that. So by the time the audience got the offer that was delivered through a free recorded message its pretty powerful so they bought, I had a high closing rate. And the beauty of it is when you use robotic things like one of the things I taught was I showed my bio video, a three and a half minute video of me with a bunch of famous people consulting clients. I’m giving my consulting rates and in the video I’m $25,000 for half a day for consulting right now which I should raise it because.
Mike: Positioning positioning positioning.
Joe: Totally you hear what I’m doing here I mean this is kind of a subtle way to say oh I’m like really expensive you know that’s why you think I’m so cool and smart. Part of charging the high fees though, Dan Kennedy says this is looking at someone with a straight face while you’re quoting the price. But you’ve really got to be able to deliver.
Mike: Absolutely its about value. The haters will get you pretty soon if not someone else.
Joe: Well, even the haters that can’t compete with you will criticize you because.
Mike: Of course they’re jealous.
Joe: Yeah, they can’t do what you do but so I taught all that stuff, and I delivered it through a video sales letter. So the take away here from everything I said, every person if there’s application should have a consumer awareness guide, a 24 hour free recorded message, you should have this on your website, you should have a video. You would be well served to take some sort of theatre like this and actually do direct mail with it, have a bio video that is not you saying how great you are. If you’re ever going to speak or if you’re just going to do teleseminars or webinars or you have a small carpet cleaning business we have consumer awareness videos that is the same content put in a video and that’s the deal, and so you know that sort of thing.
Mike: So here’s my take away from all of that is A, I agree completely I mean the robotic marketing thing. And that’s I’ve spent basically my whole online marketing career designing systems to automate marketing, I mean that’s really because I completely agree with what you’re saying and in this case you’re doing a couple things that are really smart. One is you’re leveraging the power of celebrity okay, and that you know being able to have her say something like that and basically do the pitch for you. The worst thing you can do is be talking about how great you are all the time, the best thing you can have is someone else talking about it right.
Joe: Other people doing it. Infinitely more believable when other people say great things about you that if you say it yourself.
Mike: And when its celebrity endorsements as well or if flat out celebrity testimonial that’s also very very good. And as you talked about there’s a lot of different ways of delivering it. That card is one and I’m a huge believer in Dan Kennedy’s stuff I read all of his books, anytime you even hear that one’s coming out I’ve always ordered ahead of time. You know Bill came out with Outrageous Advertising; in fact I’ve got those videos I don’t know if you saw it I did a bunch of videos with him.
Joe: Yeah, you were going to show me some of them that you actually created that you were telling me about yesterday.
Mike: Yeah, and they’re really good and so the whole point, here’s just to cut to the chase what Dan is saying is in the last newsletter I just got it like yesterday he completely just says social media is great. But the example he used in the newsletter is how he’s reading the latest either Fortune or Forbes magazine and of course it was targeting CEOs and driving people to a social media event. Why it’s so important he says just a load of poop because number one they’re marketing this thing in a magazine and then the way to register is to call a phone number and it’s a live event.
He said if social media works so damn well they wouldn’t need the magazine, they wouldn’t need all this stuff, and they’d be delivering why don’t they just deliver the whole thing online and he goes on and on and he’s like I love the idea. But he says the fact of the matter is it’s nonsense for the most part and direct mail is even better it’s always been better, and he also goes on to talk about Yellow Pages and how effective they are. But what’s happened are the rules have changed, because in a lot of ways for a lot of businesses Yellow Pages don’t work as well as they used to but it means you’ve had to adjust your strategy, just like in direct mail as well.
Joe: And let me say something because you’re saying some really important stuff that I want to play off of, and by the way after I kind of go through this I’m going to ask you some questions because you can answer a lot of the stuff we talked about in the beginning. You know right now yesterday we were at a webcast which Dean was doing some stuff with real estate right, and basically we live right now at the time we’re actually doing this this video you can get real estate’s pretty much rock-bottom. And I look at advertising space as real estate, like if you’re going to run an ad in the Yellow Pages and you’re going to run a half-page ad you know just like if you were to buy an acre here in La Jolla I think we’re I don’t know if we’re not really right in La Jolla.
Mike: We’re in Old Town right now but we’re close yeah.
Joe: Yeah so if you’re going to go and buy an acre in La Jolla that’s a pretty it can be very pricey piece of property.
Mike: You can buy a house and an acre for less than you could buy an acre in La Jolla.
Joe: Okay so the point is you can put a trailer a beat up trailer on that acre or you can build a beautiful home that’s worth millions dollars, it’s what you do with the space. And so you know if you’re going in a magazine if you’re going to go on a postcard, I look at everything as real estate, and if you’re going to use up the real estate of a website you better put something pretty awesome there and if it doesn’t work don’t blame. You know even till this day the internet doesn’t work, social media doesn’t work, there’s a lot of things that really they try to like the whole analogy well why are they running an ad in a magazine well yeah exactly okay. There are situations where certain medias are better than others for certain things, when it certainly comes to making money you better have a pretty damn good message.
You know going back to the three things you need to sell something, you need a product or service, you need a sales pitch, you need a delivery system, here’s what most people do in order to sell what it is they sell. Here’s my glop, here’s my product or service let’s just call it glop, and here’s how I’m going to deliver information about my glop to the world. I’m going to put a website up, I’m going to do an email campaign, I’m going to have a fan page. I’m going to do a postcard, I’m going to do face-to-face selling, I’m going to do TV, and I’m going to do radio. But if you don’t get the freaking sales message right the marketing message right all you’re going to be doing is delivering a really lame mediocre message about your glop, but if you get the middle part right perfect.
And there’s two things that people really need and there’s a lot to be said about this is marketing is what you say and who you say it to, it’s your list, its your offer. And people say well I’m going to you know I’m going to do a direct mail campaign what sort of response should I be looking for. And the answer and I didn’t come up with this quote is between zero and 100% depending on the offer and the list. Like what should you expect out of your marketing well between 0 and a 100% depending on the offer and the list.
Mike: That’s how I start a negotiation by the way you know someone will say how much does it cost, and I’ll say well I want a billion dollars. And you want to pay one dollar or you want it for free, so I know we’re going to find the answer somewhere in between, and that’s basically the way marketing.
Joe: I remember this pickup artist got that was on like a talk show years ago and there was like this woman that was on the show that was like admitted to be a gold digger. She would go out with guys and she would just have them buy her dinner constantly and she had a dog at home and she said she would even get like a lobster to go for her little poodle or something and she really said this on TV. And so then there was this other guy that was a pickup artist that was you know basically you know saying he could be pickup any woman whatever and one lady in the audience said well you and this guy should go out. And she said you know I wouldn’t go out if you know he paid me $1 million and he leans over and goes you know we’ve at least now establish what you are, now we’re just haggling over price it was so funny, it was classic.
Mike: Well, its the I think Churchill had something like that its something its the comment about someone being a whore or something like that so that’s fantastic. So here we are I love you marketing.
Joe: I love marketing, why do you love marketing let me ask you that why do you love marketing?
Mike: Oh, that’s a good question all right yeah its your turn to ask questions now and then we’ll wrap this up for our friends while we’re providing valuable information so.
Joe: No no, I think in a lot of ways you’re thinking when are we going to get to it when we are going to get to it. If anyone was watching this video from the beginning and didn’t pay attention to some of the techniques, look if someone puts together a 24 hour free recorded message and they start putting that on their business cards on my twitter page which is twitter.com/JoePolish the first week I put up a 24 hour free recorded message on twitter I sold $3000 worth of stuff. How many people are selling things off their twitter page because I take people off-line in an environment where they’re not expecting someone to be pitching them, and there’s a 24 hour free recorded message and someone could have a mobile, everyone still has a phone.
There are more mobile phones than computers and televisions and everything on the planet, I think there are more phones than perhaps thimbles or blenders maybe even. But there are a lot of phones out there and so people like have access to phones, so everyone that’s watching this if you think we’re rambling or going on tangents which we are because I mean we’re both insane you know that’s fine. But there’s great technique here, consumer awareness guide, free recorded message, video sales letter, I mean all the things we talk about is very relevant even if they had to muddle through our shenanigans.
Mike: All right so to answer your question. I love marketing for a bunch of reasons, one of them is I love human psychology and I love figuring out why people do the things they do. I love to buy things, I love to sell things, I like to see how they work. And I like to understand why they buy it, why they make decisions. I love relationships, I mean I really enjoy people and what I like most about marketing is the idea that I get to try out ideas, and this idea of presenting offers.
And I remember there’s a couple of online marketers who say well Mike’s a pitchman and I’m like I don’t know if I’m a pitchman. I do love to sell stuff and I like connecting, I like solving problems. I mean deep inside my greatest skill is I’m good at observing complicated problems and solving them with technology. Its like figuring out the fastest easiest way of getting there, and I’ve got a couple of unique skill sets. One of them is technology and tools and the other part is I’ve learned marketing but I don’t really understand marketing. You know every year that goes I go like well what I knew a year ago is almost irrelevant, right.
Joe: Its a very interesting industry because you know the more you learn the more you realize you don’t know and all the nuances.
Mike: Yeah, that’s true and thankfully we’ve had unbelievably gifted mentors you know folks like.
Joe: People like me.
Mike: Yeah Joe Polish for example yeah, but seriously I mean like Kennedy and Halbert to me are the two greatest.
Mike: Yeah and I go back and Joe Sugarman was one of my great mentors.
Joe: You know that bastard did more pull-ups than me when he was in his 70s, we’re at John Butcher‘s house the guy who started Precious Moments in Lifebook and Joe Sugarman did more pull-ups than all of us.
Mike: I know he’s a bastard that way.
Joe: Ridiculous at 73 years old right now and can like over 20 pull-ups.
Mike: Same age as my dad actually and so yeah I watch him I’m like oh that skinny little bastard.
Joe: Yeah, I hear you a lot of jealousy and resentment that takes place with human beings.
Mike: I understand. So I know to sum it up I think it’s a beautiful art form, you have an opportunity to market with technology, with human psychology, with video, with music, with animation, with television, I mean really I consider it I know there are people who will curse this perhaps it’s an art form, it is my art.
Joe: Yeah you said this yesterday you’re in the entertainment business we are in the entertainment business, all thought both of us are probably not very entertaining, but we are in that business.
Mike: Its the truth and I have made movies before, I have produced music and growing up I wanted to make video games. Well, my first real company was digital café in 1989 to 1999 one of the biggest things we ever did is we designed a video game built around based around Doom. You remember Doom it was like the first player shoot up game and we created a game called Chex Quest that shipped in 6 million boxes of breakfast cereal for General Mills and the whole product was sponsored by AOL. So they paid for the CD-ROM.
So the bottom line is at that point you get a CD made and millions of them even you’d pay almost two bucks well we negotiated around 80 something cents and they’re all own packaged and it increased cereal sales by I believe it was 237%. And to this day you can go search for Chex Quest online there are still people who were kids back then who still design levels for the game, who hacked the game and I still get fan mail I swear to god. And this is going back to let’s say 90 something I mean we’re talking 15 years ago.
And look deep inside I was a frustrated filmmaker, why did I produce the documentary that I just finished making this Life of Tesla documentary its because I love filmmaking, but I’ve thought a lot about marketing documentaries. So I recently pitched a very very large company doing a couple hundred million dollars on a few ideas revolving around this and immediately they said yeah, and we’re talking they’ll give me part of the company or the upside in exchange for this.
So the opportunity to be creative and expressive and to experiment with human psychology and become wealthy beyond imagination with an art that’s fun and interesting where you can literally take every skill set and every form of art and every form of expression and roll it all in and have fun and I will add. In all sincerity you’re one of the most interesting people, you’re in my top people in my life who I trust completely and we always just have a blast hanging out and making fun of each other and all that kind of stuff.
Joe: Exactly that’s the best part.
Mike: It is but I mean you’ve introduced me to some of the most interesting people in my Rolodex as well definitely some of the most valuable people in my life. Who are also they resonate on a high-frequency, because there’s a different between being a slime ball marketer and being a marketer that wants to make a difference and leave a massive impact and cause change. You know you’re very philanthropic; you’ve given away millions and millions of other people’s money. But I mean you’ve given away millions of dollars and you’ve changed a lot of lives, and its also given you access to people who are virtually impossible to reach you know folks like Branson and all that right.
Joe: Yeah, and I will say something to that too, I mean a lot of charities are simply cosmetic, you know they’re all for show, they just try to pretend like they’re trying to do stuff. I went to enough events where everyone gets in really nice clothes and very sort of elegant sort of dinners which has always made me uncomfortable because I grew up I spent half my life living in.
Mike: I mean you’re dressed to kill right now for example.
Joe: Yeah, I have a ton of suits and stuff but I quit wearing most of them a long time ago.
Mike: Most of them have a little red nose and there are stripes and plaids and I mean.
Joe: No, I have some extraordinarily cool ties I have probably 50 ties that I never wear, I’m going to send them all to you.
Mike: Okay, thank you.
Joe: And then you can come up with something to do with them. But I got to the point where I went to a bunch of charity events and everyone’s dressed up and they’re doing auctions and that’s all cool I’m not saying someone shouldn’t do that. But I thought what if we actually took all of the knowledge of all these people in the room and we actually tied it into where people would donate money, but they’d actually learn something. Like let’s tie it into a valuable discussion, and so that’s what I started doing, I started doing that with Richard Branson like the trips that we do on Necker Island. And do I get a lot out of it absolutely, I get to link myself to Branson I get to hang out with him, I get to meet a lot of incredible people its a big door opener, but we also get to raise a lot of money. And so it’s a lot of things that we’re doing with you know Genius Network interviews and Make-A-Wish and all that stuff.
But the thing I want to say to that because it ties into what you’re saying is marketing opens doors that cannot be opened any other way. I never in a million years when I was growing up I’m an introverted guy by nature, I’ve learned that you have to go out and talk to people because that’s how you get checks, I mean you really do. You have to go and associate with people in order to get them to buy things, to give you money, to make things happen.
And I always thought of that which you fear but you don’t face controls you, that which you fear but that you face or take steps to face and you can control it or at least get much better at it. So I’ve always said get out of my comfort zone, get out of my comfort zone, and so through marketing it allowed me to figure out how to communicate with tons of people without having to subject myself to things that really messed with my introverted tendencies. You know how do I talk to a bunch of people without physically having to talk to them, does that make sense?
Mike: Yeah totally.
Joe: So that’s why I really love marketing, but you know you asked earlier about and I think you’re touching on this I’ll just assume that I understand where you’re kind of going with this and just talk about networking in general. I don’t think of networking just as going out and meeting people I mean that’s cool to meet a lot of people, but you know what I have a lot of relationships and there’s lot of people in the world. And so I want to meet the very best people. I tend to pursue people that are industry transformers, people that have literally gone into an industry and transformed it. And most real transformations, most breakthroughs in life were not well accepted in the beginning, they’re people that totally buck the system, that are rebels, that are radical sort of thinkers, and you know in order to have a breakthrough you’ve got to break something.
You know I have no tolerance for mediocrity I just simply don’t, and I’m a big fan of Schumpeter’s creative destruction where you creatively go in to destroy something kind of what you’re talking about with the educational system. You know it’s going to be entrepreneurs, the future belongs to the entrepreneurs, the future belongs to capitalist and not the capitalist crap that is perpetrated by morons like Michael Moore. Who when I say moron he’s a very smart moron okay the guys very calculated very smart, but what he creates a movie called capitalism which has nothing to do with what true capitalism really is. True capitalism is collaboration between individuals exchanging value for money not corporatism which is what he goes on and exposes, you know I mean that sort of stuff its a completely different thing there’s not even enough time to go into that but capitalism.
Mike: Let’s just get my giant turd award.
Joe: Yes, we should. Yeah, I mean hers a guy that makes his living slamming the exact people that live the exact way that he.
Mike: Well and also how he’s frankly made an immense amount of money and impact as well basically he’s a capitalist story teller.
Joe: Yeah, exactly I’d love to interview him. But here’s the thing, so networking I don’t look at it as just networking I look at it as having a Genius Network where you create a network of people. Genius Network is like the marketing term I have Genius Network Mastermind which is what my 25k group is, I have my Genius Network Interviews I have a Genius Network Show that I’m going to start.
Mike: But you’re not selling anything right now or plugging anything but keep going.
Joe: Yeah, I’m glad you picked up on that. So that’s very funny Mike.
Mike: Thank you. I think if I remember correctly you were asking me questions but keep on going on and on please.
Joe: Yeah, I’m going to do that I’ll just keep with that sort of flow. So here’s the thing Genius Network is you create a Genius Network smart people, then you do genius networking you start thinking at a different level of how you actually network. You’re like okay where am I really spending my time, in order to have a genius network you got to be a genius networker, okay. So there’s genius network, genius networking and you know being a genius networker, and if you tie those three together you will just function much differently does that make sense?
Mike: It does.
Joe: Okay and you may not even call it that but that’s what you do too. The reason that you know all of these like what you’re doing here in the studio is you’re creating an environment so that you can bring people in and do things that they simply cannot do to communicate it out in the world. I mean you have a genius network, and you said a bunch of nice things about me and the same goes with you, you’ve introduced me to some incredible people, some incredible wisdom and what allows us to do that is we started studying marketing. And marketing was the vehicle to where me and you got access to the things, see marketing just isn’t about making money marketing isn’t just about how to persuade and communicate, marketing is about creating access and if you want access to everything in the world you better fricken get good at marketing. And if you want to be shut out from money, relationships, knowledge, wisdom, insight groups, don’t learn it don’t pay any attention to, poo poo say it’s all bullshit.
Mike: Yeah and well I’ll go so far as to say you know I talked about this I did an event recently and I talked about the value of platform and the value of.
Joe: Platform shoes like in the I’m Gonna Git You Sucka remember that movie.
Mike: I’m talking about goldfish and Plexiglas shoes with a dingle berry.
Joe: Remember Chris Rock in that he’s like how much for an order of ribs?
Mike: How much for them ribs?
Joe: 2.50. 50 cents a rib.
Mike: How much for a rib, yeah I love that.
Joe: That’s a great movie everyone should watch I’m Gonna Git You Sucka, its fricken awesome.
Mike: That was unbelievable.
Joe: Its like that black version of airplane.
Mike: I actually was talking to a cabbie in Las Vegas and he looked like Samuel L Jackson and he talked like him to he was unbelievable and he.
Joe: I actually I will say this I peed next to Sam L Jackson when I went to the Oscars in 2006 he was in a full leather outfit it was very bizarre.
Mike: I got to tell you one thing do you remember when he walks out.
Joe: I want this kept in this video by the way so I want to say that.
Mike: Well you know we’re not doing any post-production. Pulp Fiction going to go shake hands with the man, seriously one of the best lines ever in a film am I right or am I right.
Joe: You’re absolutely right.
Mike: So what in the hell were we rambling about, oh yeah access. So basically I was just saying the most valuable thing to me is platform, you could take away all my money, all my resources, all the studio, all this stuff, and as long as I’ve got access to the people I know in 90 days I could build it all back. 90 to 6 months okay because that access is more valuable than any money ever for sure and you earn access its like reputation.
Joe: Yeah, you’re not entitled anything, the world does not owe you nothing and you should not expect the world to give you anything without creating value for other people first, and marketing is the ultimate leverage. You know leverage is maximum results least amount of effort, productivity is maximum results least amount of time. I try to pursue knowledge in areas which will give me maximum productivity and maximum leverage and I try to seek people out that do that stuff and I also do everything I can to not associate with losers. You know in the marketing world as in any industry.
Mike: Psychic vampires are what I call them.
Joe: There are a lot of people we know that are very clever and you can learn really interesting techniques from them, but you would never want to do.
Mike: I suspect there’s a giant but coming up.
Joe: Yeah, but you would never want to do business with them. Yeah so my whole thing is like learn from them as much as you can, but I really love the world of marketing because yeah I don’t know anything that can give someone more access. Okay let me say this I asked Richard Branson on my very first interview I did with him, the one we did over the phone, like how do you use your time, how does Richard Branson a guy with 50,000 employees in all the different several hundred virgin companies 25 billion in revenue, how do you.
Mike: A virgin company imagine that.
Joe: A virgin company yeah and I said how do you spend your time and he said well, 40% now on his philanthropic activities, 10% on fighting fires, 25% at looking at new deals, and 25% on marketing. So you’ve got a billionaire and he says one-quarter of how he spends his time in business is on marketing. If that doesn’t say there’s something kind of important about that topic.
Mike: And if you gave an opportunity to get rid of one of those and spend the rest of it on something else I’d put money on it he’d say if I can get rid of fighting fires and spend all that time on marketing.
Joe: And you couldn’t look at other business deals if you weren’t able to market.
Mike: So I’m just going to just tell you a couple things that I got out of this last exchange which is, I have a business and life philosophy which is I have made a decision to only spend time with people I want to grow old with okay. That’s how I filter everything now its my lens, so if they don’t pass my I want to grow old with you filter I give them no time. Now that’s I’m talking about high-level access relationships, but I’ve had an enormous number of people say that has shifted their mindset on that one thing and it certainly shifted mine, so I’m glad to take credit for that.
All right so the second one is you say you spend your time focusing on industry transformers and I created this character the disruptorsaurus and the whole idea of I use it as a model in my own mind which is how can I constantly be a disruptorsaurus, not a dangerous one that leaves too much destruction in its path and in its wake. But it’s like disruption is a necessary cause and you call it creative destruction, but I’m also looking for other disruptorsaurie you know. It’s like and I consider disruption to be not only necessary but it’s a great skill set and you look for it and people who change worlds true revolutionaries are not evolutionaries right.
Joe: So what I wanted to ask you about was social media I mean we’ve talked a little bit about it but to get some real context on what is the Mike Koenig’s perception of all of these different ways of connecting with friends on all the different social media sites. I mean how what is the intelligent smart way to use them for business, because obviously for friendships they’re a great ways to connect to people, but simply for clients prospects business you know what’s the right and wrong ways to do it.
Mike: All right so interestingly I was just thinking about this a lot this past week I had I was with my son at chess camp and it’s not as uber nerdish as it sounds, but it was really very very fun. And I had for the first time in months literally a little bit of downtime where I got to just think, and I started feeling weird because its like how much time do I spend on Facebook and Linkedin and all these sites, and the answer is almost none okay. Although I’ve got a business built around this idea of social media and here’s what I’ve done that’s important I’ll tell you what people do that’s complete a complete waste of time. Which is it is incredibly valuable and important to have profiles on, and in order for me in order would be Facebook, YouTube, Linkedin, Twitter and then have a Flickr account. Flickr is just where you put all your pictures.
Why because Google loves those and of course Google+ too which is kind of the latest newest doodad. And Google+ is basically Google’s version of Facebook, they’re just going straight after them. And they actually are thinking through things in a very very good way, now which one wins frankly I don’t care. If you take a look at my businesses so Traffic Geyser being the first one, and then Instant Customer being the second big one, we’ve got a third platform coming out right now. Traffic Geyser built our entire business by being parasites on top of a whole bunch of video distribution content distribution social media sites.
So other people were spending hundreds or tens of millions of dollars building technology platforms and we’re just agnostic, basically it was like put your content in Traffic Geyser, give it a name, press a button and we send it out, we syndicate and distribute it to over 100 locations at the click of a button that’s the big promise. Now of course there’s all kinds of things that pop up because all these sites some of them are up for a little while and really we don’t care, ten of them could be up during one week and then five of them could go down. But we’re going to find 5 or 10 more and Google didn’t care for the longest time, things have changed a little bit in terms of what works best now.
But the bottom line is stick it in there press a button boom all over the place, and Google says oh you have a whole bunch of content that points back to your website you get lots of free traffic okay. It worked like a charm and still does on a lot of levels, again the rules have changed because now what Google likes is what is your social presence like in other they pay attention to your reputation. Google determines your reputation based upon how many people follow you, how many people comment upon you, how often the conversations take place and how many incoming and outgoing links are going to your thing.
In other words the way I always liken it is if you’re in a crowd of 50,000 people for example and the person in front of the audience said who here is the best at fill in the blanks here, right. And everyone in the audience would probably raise there hand and say well I’m the best at it, but then if that same person would bring out a celebrity. And then say I’m going to introduce you to the best fill in the blank here that’s ever existed and go on talk about your character and all the results and say that person out of 50,000 is Joe Polish, he’s the best at whatever. And then if you asked everyone who’s the best in the room a huge percentage would have a reason why you’re going to be the best okay.
So the whole point is Google’s a popularity contest its as simple as that, and what Google thinks is becoming increasingly unimportant okay. Now you’d say well Google’s where it begins but it’s a popularity contest of who has the most influence, who has the most people pointing at you saying you’re the best, and it’s just like real life. Social media does finally represent real life.
So going back to what’s most important I’ll tell you what I spend my time on right now and it makes me an immense amount of money and it works, meaning a lot more people are hearing about it. I’ll give you a for example and this is out of reach of a lot of people’s so I’ll start with what’s in reach for everyone first which is create profiles on all the sites one more time it’d be again I’d say you know Google+, Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin, Flickr, okay and I’m sure someone will say what about who cares whatever, its like a popularity contest.
The next thing is make sure you have something to sell, you got to have a damn offer okay because a lot of people fiddle fart around and they tweet and they twaddle and they Facebook and whatever and who cares, it’s a complete and utter waste of time. Its like all you’re doing is more one-on-one conversations retarded waste of time, I repeat a retarded waste of time. Instead what you want to do is know who the hell they are, what they’re interested in, and give the most people the most amount of stuff that drives them to buy your stuff, period end of story.
And the way that’s done is not by saying buy my crap and being a used car salesman, it’s about engaging in a conversation that they want to hear so they get to know you, like you, trust you, and feel like they’ve got a relationship with you. So this is the part where I just did an experiment that’s so far worked out very very well, and again it’s given me an immense amount of access to opportunities and deals that I never would have had before. I produced a documentary called Life of Tesla okay, I’m producing a documentary and I’ve actually got a video on how to make a documentary and why to make a documentary.
You could literally hire a filmmaker for as little as probably 4 or 5 grand who could make a story all about you and talk about without it being overt in how great you are. The point and purpose of my documentary was to give away free education and why you should have a green or greener lifestyle and there’s a whole bunch of arguments about oh well it costs a lot of oil to make an electric car and I know all of. I know what the haters and the retards are going to say okay oops did I say that word, meant it. So that was not politically correct was it?
Joe: No, you’re not a very politically correct man.
Mike: But I’m not so all the people who would rather complain and whine and point fingers and blame other people versus actually get off the fat ass and do something about it right.
Mike: You know what I’m talking about. Anyway the whole point is telling a story, giving it away and educating people on a benefit, in this case my house is powered by solar, and my car is solar charged. And I’ve been doing it a year now officially 12,000 miles on the thing and I give away the story and how it was done and why I did it. And it gave me access to Tesla and a lot of people in Tesla. I’ve been able to leverage this to gain access to big companies that would pay me an immense amount of money to do it with them and for them and it escalates my value, just like you were talking about earlier.
So I can legitimately go out and charge $50,000 or more per day to consult and I do get paid I mean I can close $100,000 consulting gig on the platform now I’ve done it. And so two years ago three years ago five years ago I certainly could not of done that. So getting back to why social media its because you can take a content like this put it on YouTube completely free, websites are basically free. And so the bottom line here is social media gives you access and allows you to connect with a lot of people, I know the last stats I ran 1 in 9 people on the planet have a Facebook account, okay.
Joe: That’s a trip.
Mike: It is, the problem with Facebook is anyone can find out who’s following you and advertise and market to them and friend them. So in a way you have no control over your client base if you’re doing a lot of Facebook marketing okay, I’d see that’s a giant downside. On the other hand it means you can steal someone else’s clients and customers; there is no loyalty anymore, the loyalty last as long as there’s trust. Trust is earned not paid for or given, so you can manipulate it for a little while but it’s not a long-term thing its like any long-term relationship. And what do people want they want relationships. Social media exist because they want to engage in a conversation.
So I only do social media for the purposes of creating a lot of conversations at once, as many as possible with the fewest number of moves, that’s the only time it matters. Otherwise my personal opinion is the less time you spend on email and one-on-one communications except for the most influential people it’s a waste of time. Yeah, that’d be the bottom line so I don’t know if I answered your question.
Joe: No no, and I want to say this too because there’s takeaways, because I know we need to wrap up here. A lot of people confuse activity with accomplishment. A lot of people confuse activity with accomplishment, and I run across all the time people that want to start businesses, they want to grow their business and they don’t have a sales letter I think the number one thing that somebody needs before a website is a sales letter. And even if you’re never going to mail a direct-mail letter as an example to actually sit down and think of who is your ideal prospect. Whom am I communicating with, what am I offering, what is the problem that I’m solving for profit or attempting to solve for profit. Because that’s what entrepreneur’s do, they solve problems for profit.
And you actually sit down and you communicate in print what it is you have, why someone should care. And you can be very specific, for instance my consumer awareness guide is a template, it could be seven questions to ask if you’re a web designer, seven questions to ask a web designer. If you are a financial advisor, six costly misconceptions about hiring a financial advisor. Its all templates, come up with whatever the number is and actually draft and craft a communication, and if you want an easy way of knowing how to do this just sit down and record yourself, just talk and then have it transcribed.
And then you have the rough draft of your sales letter. Most people could have a very successful business, in many cases a multimillion dollar business without even having a website, without doing any social media, without any of that stuff. And so what people do is they as Stephen Covey says they a major in minor things, they put all of their time and effort in things because everyone else is doing it. And one of the best pieces of advice I heard early on is look at what the majority is doing and do the complete opposite and you’ll have a much better chance of success and that is always true. It’s contrarian, but for the most part the conventional wisdom is usually.
Mike: Its contrarian but not cynical.
Joe: Yeah exactly, and so the point is just look at what the vast majority of people are doing and do the opposite, because the 5% of people that are most successful are willing to do and do the things that the other 95% are not willing to do. And so part of it is just going away from the herd, and I even spent 45 minutes on the phone with Dan Kennedy about 10 days ago talking about how he does not have a cell phone, he doesn’t use email, and he doesn’t use the internet. I mean he literally does not go and look online, and he said you know it’s probably cost me a little bit of money but for the most part the amount of time that I.
Mike: I can tell you personal stories about how it’s caused immense frustration.
Joe: On the other side.
Mike: And I believe its to the point of idiocy okay, and the thing is I understand the reason why and part of it is it gives him pride to say that and drive it home. The but is there are certain things that it’s like and again I won’t get into the specifics I have a personal experience where we could’ve saved 10 days of screwing around and thousands of dollars and immense amount of frustration and misunderstanding with a tiny tiny amount of flexibility to review some stuff okay.
So I just think its just like just because you live in a cave and you’re doing just fine doesn’t mean you should live in the damn cave all the time, because its more about being right than it is about doing the right thing and succeeding. Again I don’t know if I’d say that directly to his face because he’d still want to he’d send me an angry fax.
Joe: Dude let’s just send him this on DVD.
Mike: We could do that.
Joe: That’d be awesome. But here’s the point its like finding the happy median because the take away is that when you stare at a computer screen all day it literally is altering the neural pathways in the human brain, I mean we’re mutating ourselves looking at screen sucking as my friend Ned Hallowell says all the time. And so the point is like Dan says the internet in a lot of ways resembles kind of what happens in Las Vegas casinos, where people just plop themselves down in front of the slot machine and they just keep pulling the handle.
Mike: Completely and totally agree with that.
Joe: So the point is like if you’re going to use the internet, if you’re going to use technology which is there’s so much you can do with technology, I love it, I love the fact that you can do all these incredible things. But the key is understanding the difference between technologies important, but psychology is infinitely more important and if you don’t understand the psychology of the mindset of the person that you’re selling to, what it is you’re in the game for in the first place, the best way to win you’re going to waste your time meddling around with a lot of stuff. So I’m looking for the happy median as best I can, there’s no perfect solution right.
Mike: And its varied, it changes.
Joe: So the whole thing is actually use it to accomplish your goals don’t get used by it, and most people get used by it. The reason that there’s not a lot of accomplishment with some people is they just got their priorities mixed up.
Mike: And I would argue most people, but that’s an unfortunate reality.
Joe: Yeah and so I will say on Ilovemarketing.com which is where we’re putting this video Dean Jackson who’s one of the most balanced clearest thinkers that I know, my partner in I love marketing, type in 50 minute focus finder. All the things that me and you talked about, all these ideas and just listen to Dean Jackson explain that whole process about how to think, how to structure your goals, how to structure your time. I mean I hate using the word time management most people understand though, it is truly one of the very best 50 minutes you will ever spend in your entire life on dealing with overwhelm, on dealing with where to start, on dealing with what’s most important. And so I wanted to say that because it helps piece together conversations like this that go off in a lot of different directions.
But all in all I love things like this because it’s simply creativity at work, and as Gary Halbert said the world advances on the backs of its neurotics. And so neurotic people like me and you hopefully we can share some insights, and if nothing else give people things to think about so that they can reach their bigger future, use marketing as one of the vehicles to getting them there and then basically be more capable confident entrepreneurs.
Mike: Handy capable.
Mike: Wasn’t that wonderful? Yeah, so I’ve got one little thing I’m going to drop in one shameless plug because a lot of what you’ve been talking about here. When you talk about creating the sales letter I completely agree with that okay, which is I have been experimenting with an idea lately which is I believe just like in the idea of Gary said you can get anything you want with a sales letter. I think you can get anything you want with a keynote presentation and a video even faster okay. And I’ve experimented with it and its given me immense access, in fact access to I told you about that exclusive group that I got accepted into recently so go ahead.
Joe: I do want to say just because I mean I say this thinking the exact thing a sales letter could be audio, it could be video, it could be print, it could be online, it could be off-line. So when I say sales letter I’m using that as an umbrella statement to whatever you’re going to communicate, whatever your message is, you want it canned and cloned and documented. I don’t really care how, as a matter fact I think they should have everything, I think they should have all formats.
Mike: Right and so there were a lot of things that led up to this, but the whole thing of what lead into developing instant customer for me was I had a problem, which is I was bad at capturing leads and following up right away. And like many people you know you get a big stack of business cards and they don’t do anything with it. And so as I saw some things evolve I was like I know that if I can just present an opportunity and an offer to someone I just met as rapidly as possible there’s a high probability they’re going to make a decision and say yes okay. I have a new challenge in my life right now which is I can sell more stuff than my companies can deliver, working on solving that and it’s a good problem to have, its a weird problem to have.
So one of the things that the tool does and we break it down in what we call three chunks its capture, connect and close. So you want to capture leads and opportunities everywhere you go business cards, mobile text, email, voicemail, voice recognition, whatever it is dial it in. Connect with a consumer awareness guide with a follow-up video, and do it in as many medians as possible. So you want to use voicemail, mobile text, email, print. Now we’ve got print in there again with pearls, so you can measure and track everything, you know exactly what people are doing and then deliver an automated teleseminar webinar or webcast, we could turn this into a live or recorded webcast, but the idea of creating robotic marketing system.
So that was the original vision in putting the whole thing together, and I’m the first one to stand here. And as I’ve been saying in something’s I am sitting as a flawed man who doesn’t take my own advice all the time, its like I get so busy building it and solving problems that I’m not using all my own tools, which we talk about that off-camera frequently.
Joe: Hey its the curse of the being in the how-to world.
Mike: Yeah, it really is. So do you have anything else to wrap up on your end?
Joe: No, you know what I would say this is completely like off-topic and stuff, first off it’s thank you for having me come over and see your studio and kind of.
Mike: And rob time on a Sunday from my family I understand.
Joe: I really appreciate that, you’re a bad person.
Mike: Thank you I know that already.
Joe: This has been cool and I really like having discussions about random stuff because it allows me to have a lot of food for thought, and it’s cool that you can just kind of pop in and instantaneously produce a video of this quality and this is, it I mean once you push the button.
Mike: No, I literally will press one button and then press another button and it will be.
Joe: He’s had this fancy little thing here that he’s been punching on the whole time which I don’t even quite know how it works.
Mike: We just have multiple cameras, so right now its both of us, then it’s you, and then now its me, hi how’s it going.
Joe: Yeah, I think this is super cool. And there are a lot of people that run around the world not taking actions and there’s something that every person can do every day they could have a giant impact on another person’s life. And I think what’s most interesting is if you ever have been to a funeral and I try to avoid them as much as I can. But you know I think you’re well served to basically look at people that you really admire and really respect and let them know that while they’re still alive, don’t wait till they have passed away and then get up at a funeral.
Mike: Did you still my line from the interview I did with Dean yesterday.
Joe: You said that?
Mike: That was the biggest lesson I learned in my own life and I had a big life-changing thing. I mean I almost died kind of situation when I was about 18 years old, and my dad and I used to play, my dad plays guitar and entertains he spends a lot of time in rest home. So while I was recovering from this thing I always played accompaniment guitar and bass with him and I go to all these rest homes. And I would go talk to people who are still functioning who could still talk and I always asked them what are your greatest regrets in life. And I was amazed, part of it was the era they were raised in, but also I was just amazed at how many of them said I never got to say I love you to my father. And I’ve made a point of really reaching out to everyone who’s important in my life and just connecting them on that level. And so like I know this might be the last day of either of our lives and I couldn’t go on living not having said that most important thing, which is I care about you and I love you and I’m glad you’re my life.
Joe: Are you telling me that right now?
Mike: I am right now isn’t that beautiful is that sensitive, does that make you almost want to cry?
Joe: Sort of. I’m feeling like I want to just hug you right now.
Mike: Thank you thank you, but seriously this is like some big big stuff, and all this marketing stuff aside.
Joe: And here’s why I want to say that here’s the reason I want to say that, marketing is about sharing that with the world. See people live quiet lives of desperation, and as a marketer I think the very best marketers in the world, the ones that not just sell stuff, but the ones that really bond with people. They’ll buy from you in the beginning. Gary Halbert used to say this all the time. They’ll buy from you initially because they want what you have. They’ll keep buying from you because they like you. And people know when you don’t like them, people know when you don’t care. I mean they may not know immediately but if you hang around enough they’re going to know.
And if you really care about people, if you really care about your clients, if you really have value to share with the world then quit sitting on your ass waiting for the day when it’s going to be right. And in some cases when they’re gone so you can sit and talk about how you admire them, go out to the world and put sunshine out into the world, be a fountain not a drain. Tell people that you care about them, right now write down literally I mean I hate books with people like do this exercise and they’re all reading the book you just want to keep reading the book right. And I’m just going to violate that and say.
Mike: Right on top of this video right now take a permanent magic marker and then.
Joe: Write on your iPad or whatever, but seriously I have an exercise called the Genius Network, think of the 8 to 10 most important people in your life right now, in your whole life business and personal. Write them down and what is important to them, because that famous Zig Ziglar saying you can have anything that you want in the world if you help enough other people get what they want. People always ask me how do you connect with other people, I never ask anyone to do anything for me without creating value first. Why do we put I love marketing out there it’s free, I mean we put it out there, we put great content out there because we just want to put great information out there because some of these people are going to take what we say and they’re going to do something with it and that’s what makes the world go around. So tell your mother if she’s still alive my mother is unfortunately not still alive, tell her you love her if you do love her and people that are important to you share it, and marketing is the vehicle to put it out there.
And a real simple technique write 10 postcards every day to people that you care about, real postcard, snail mail put a stamp on it and mail them out. And if you do that for one year and most people won’t most people won’t, but if you did that for a year your income will go through the roof your bonding with people will go through the roof. You will be known as a person that they have probably an immense amount of respect and someone that just is well positioned with them. And most people simply won’t do it, but if you did do it it will change your life, it will change your business, and that’s just one out of many things. So there’s more I could say but we’ll wait to another future episode of I love marketing.
Mike: Let’s do another one in here.
Joe: And thank you.
Mike: Yeah, nah it’s my pleasure my friend.
Joe: I appreciate it.
Mike: Let’s turn to the main camera right here thanks for watching and what we’re going to do is we’re going to cut to an I love marketing graphic and we’ll see you online soon.
Joe: Awesome goodbye.
Mike: Bye bye.