Episode #64

Episode 064: The one with Dean Graziosi

  • Dean and Joe get Dean to break down his success formula
  • Dean talks about marketing stamina and being committed
  • How Dean camps out inside the mind of his prospect
  • PLUS: Who Dean keeps in mind as he’s creating marketing systems

Dean: Hey, everybody! It’s Dean Jackson.   

Joe: And the infamous Joe Polish.   

Dean: And who else?   

Joe: And a very special guest. Another guy by the name of Dean.   

Dean: My favorite name.   

Joe: His name is…   

Dean G: Dean Graziosi. Wow. I love having 2 Deans on one line.   

Joe: This is exciting. It’s Mr. Dean Graziosi, who is a god among men, right?   

Dean: Who from now on, we’ll just refer to him as Dean, so whenever you’re saying good things about Dean, I’m going to feel good too.   

Joe: First off, it’s great to have you as a guest on I Love Marketing. We have spent a lot of time over the last few years. We do brainstorm sessions together and Genius Network Mastermind. Dean runs a gigantic organization. Let me say a couple of things about Dean Graziosi, Dean Jackson, and then you say a couple of things and then we’ll ask him to explain who he really is. Okay?   

Dean: Okay, perfect.   

Joe: I’ve known Dean for quite a few years. He’s one of the smartest marketers on the planet. He has been on television nonstop, with infomercials, since 1999. I don’t think you’ve missed a single day on TV since 1999. Is that a correct, accurate, and truthful statement?   

Dean G: Yeah, it’s true.   

Joe: He has sold probably $1.5 billion under the Dean brand, something crazy like that.   

Dean G: About a billion. I think we’re about $1-billion.   

Joe: I thought it was a billion and a half. Come on, just exaggerated for me.   

Dean G: Well, it sounds good.   

Joe: So you’re around a billion in sales for all of this stuff?   

Dean G: Yep.   

Joe: Okay, cool.   

Dean G: For the Dean brand.   

Joe: Of course, you’ve taught lots and lots of other people how to make money, predominantly in real estate. Unlike many people that are on TV and teach other people how to do stuff, you own tremendous amounts of real estate. I’ve actually traveled with you quite a bit, and have seen properties. You’re a big investor yourself. But more than anything, for the I Love Marketing listeners, you have really embraced and understood and have become a student of marketing and you’re one of the best in the world in your category. You’ve done a phenomenal job. In an industry filled with people that have a bad reputation, you have really developed some of the best servicing and bonding with your clients that I think I’ve ever seen in that category. There’s more I could say, but Dean Jackson, what do you have to say about Dean, and then we’ll have him make this the very best I Love Marketing episode we’ve had this week.  

Dean G: It’s going to be the best one ever, hands-down. Let me just say that.   

Dean: Frank last week, Frank Kern, he was determined to get more comments than Eben, so he left a comment in the comments on how to comment and what they should comment.   

Joe: It was so funny.   

Dean: I am excited to have Dean on herem, because Dean is really one of my favorite people – not just because his name is Dean and every time we’re together when people say good things we both feel good, but Dean is one of the most enthusiastically joyful people that I get to hang around with. I really look forward to, every quarter, getting to hang out with Dean, getting to talk about all of the things that are going on. This last time we were together, we were basically the only ones in this restaurant with Tellman, and we kind of had a little mini what’s-the-best-thing-you-guys-are-doing meeting.

Dean is always so, so generous and so willing to share everything that he’s doing. But what really is, I think, going to come through on this episode – and when Dean spoke at our I Love Marketing conference – is the authentic enthusiasm that Dean has for not only just marketing, but the passion that he has for his audience, for the people that he’s actually partnering with. He’s not hiding away from them. He’s embracing them and really getting into a relationship with them, and people feel like they’re really part of a community with him. I’m very excited to maybe look in behind the scenes of all of that and dissect what he does and how we can apply that to what we’re doing. I’m happy to have him here.   

Dean G: Awesome. Thanks for saying nice things, guys. I didn’t even pay for that stuff.   

Joe: So, Dean, hit us with some smart stuff.   

Dean G: Or do I? Where do you want to start? There’s so many great things I’m working on right now, and I’m doing. Obviously, it’s I Love Marketing, and there’s a lot of great people out there wanting to market their products or services or take it to the next level. Is there an area that hasn’t been covered that you feel would be the most valuable?   

Joe: Yeah, actually, there’s a couple. One, I’d like to get your take on areas that we’ve covered over and over again, which is obviously marketing. I would first like to get your definition of marketing. But, things that haven’t been covered is you have a tremendous amount of marketing stamina. I’ve heard you talk about that quite a bit. You have done well, because you have been willing to, in many cases, gut through very difficult situations. I know a tremendous amount about your life. We’ve spent hours and hours together, we’ve been friends for many years. There’s a lot of life lessons, growing up with a lot of shit, growing up with a lot of crap, that you’ve had to overcome.

You’ve also made yourself such a famous person, by being on television. When I say “famous,” that wasn’t your goal. Your goal was never to be famous. Your goal was to actually build a business and teach people and be a trainer and all of that stuff, and you learned how to leverage it. But you’ve put yourself in such a position to where, when you’re at the level of public recognition that you are, you get criticism from jealous people that hate the fact that you’re successful and try to slam you and do things like that. I’ve seen you behind the scenes, and I know how you think and how you operate, in a lot of ways. So, I’d really like to speak to the area of just what is marketing, and how do you build it, how do you deal with it, how do you keep that marketing muscle and that marketing stamina? I think that would be really useful for our listeners.   

Dean G: Both of you guys, reel me back in, because you know I can digress a little bit. But I’ll try to loop it back around. There’s so many things I want to get out. I’ve been really focused, lately. Sometimes it’s so easy to look back on your career and what you’re doing. Joe, I think I got this from you and you got it from somebody. If you’re not climbing, you’re sliding. I feel blessed. This is going to be the best year for me, ever. We’re going to do more in sales this year than I’ve ever done in my history of being in business. And I feel good because, for me, that just means I’m getting more people engaged in a program that I know can positively affect their life. I live and breathe that every day, as both of you guys know. You watch my blogs; you know what I do. We’re friends; you get it.

But, let me just start with some really simple things that have come around, that took me years to figure out. This is going to sound like Marketing 101 to everybody listening. It’s really important. Probably something we forget about. That is that if you look through the glasses of your prospect and your client on every single level of your business, here are some ingredients. Looking through the glasses of your prospect or your client, on every level; being so passionate about your product that you feel like you’re doing people a disservice if you don’t get it in their hands; and truly being obsessed with customer results. Now, there’s 3 things that don’t seem like they have much to do with marketing – it’s everything to me. It’s how I’ve been able to, fortunately, sell a billion dollars’ worth of the Dean brand and still feel like I know I have the best products, services, and am changing more lives than anybody on the planet in my space.

So, if we go back to those 3 things, being obsessed with customer results, looking through their glasses and living in their mindset, it makes decisions easier. We’re going to another level right now. We’ve had a lot of new hires. I see it on every level. I see if our coaching sales, putting people in that next level of education, if sales are down, I can watch a sales manager pushing and pulling out the whip to whip the sales guys to make more calls, push more on sales. Sales guys reading books on how to do the takeaway and how to close, how to say the price and be quiet. The guys who have been with me for a long time know that’s not how we make a difference. We make a difference by understanding what’s going on in our consumer’s head. What I know is when you look through the eyes of your prospect and you understand their dangers, their obstacles, their anxieties, you don’t sell in the same way. You don’t sell with tricks, gimmicks, or the next thing, or knowing the hot buttons. You sell with compassion, by listening.

Joe, I got this term from you. You enter a conversation already going on in someone’s head. Again, this is stuff that I’ve said before and it’s probably Marketing 101, but I think it’s the biggest thing that people forget, because I see it every level. There’s probably 450 people working on the Dean brand right now, and as we’ve expanded by going to new departments, we have some of the best people on the planet working in each area, from being on the road doing live events to being on the phone, to customer service, to customer relations. What I just did – and this is probably the most valuable thing that I could share – is I just went through and got a couple of secret shoppers. I had someone go through the entire process of if you go to my live events, if you buy a product from me, buy additional products, how they get sold, where they get sold, and how they feel. I went through the emotions on every level.

Now, here’s what I know. Everybody listening, you’re going to feel good about your product or you wouldn’t be selling it. I feel that I have the best product on the planet. If I digress, guys, reel me in. Here’s where most people lose with their product. Let’s talk about post-sale, not pre-sale. Where most people lose their clients is when you know you have the best product on the planet. Sometimes we get over-confident with the product, the wisdom, or the confidence, or the direction we’re delivering. You say, “Hey, I’ve got the best service, the best wisdom, the best gadget, the best whatever it is to sell. People should love this.” And what they forget is people buy our emotions, and once they pull the trigger, they get very logical. Once they’re in a logical mindset, you have to give them the experience of a lifetime. I say this all the time and it sounds silly, but if wisdom alone made people wealthy and successful, we’d have an epidemic of rich librarians all over the world. All they’d have to do is tap into the greatest book, read it, and their life would be wonderful.

Our wisdom, our direction, our confidence, the capabilities that you guys want to deliver to people, it could be the best on the planet; but if people don’t have the experience of a lifetime going through it, they’re not going to get the results you want, they’re not going to stick in your continuity, they’re not going to come back, they’re not going to refer you to other people. When I say look through the eyes of your client, do it at every single level. Be obsessed with their results, and enter a conversation they’re already having. Let me give you an example. I go through the entire process. I’ll get to marketing the pre-sale, but let’s talk about the post-sale. I’m going through the entire thing, and I realize that people will go to a 3-hour free event of mine and they’ll get 2½ hours of training, and then the opportunity to go to a great 3-day workshop boot camp.

My clients, they go to this next level for a couple thousand bucks, they get amazing education. I hire the best educators on the planet. In fact, I have 27 of Dean’s students – people that were machine shop workers, housewives, mechanics, plumbers – I think we have one doctor – who used to do that, and now they’re on the road training because they made so much money with my techniques, they’re back on the road sharing it. It’s an amazing thing. So, they go to that event. They can spend, at that event, up to $25,000, all the way to having a mentor come into their house. All of these great things, right? I’m giving you an example of one little thing. What I realized is someone buys, every time they buy on these live events, they buy on a Sunday afternoon. The events are Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and they can buy on Sunday.

What I realized is the data – this is just one tiny thing I’m just triggering, and there were hundreds of little things that I continually fine-tune – what I found is the data from the buyers getting over to my team was taking 48 hours, and then sometimes 24 hours to make an outbound call to say, “Congratulations!” All of the mechanics, the service people that were handling my thing, they love our clients, they know my passion, but they just figured, “Hey, the data can’t come over on time, this is the way it goes.” For me, I’m obsessed with my clients’ results, but I want to live in their mind. So, the easy thing for me, I said, “Let me just ask you this: if you went to a live event, you saw a guy off TV where you’re not sure about infomercials in the first place, so you’re questioning. On the way out the door, your wife said to you, “Don’t dare spend any money,” but you went to this event anyway. And you spent $22,000 on your education. You got home Sunday, you told your wife, she freaked out, but you said, “No, I think this guy’s real.” And then Monday you don’t get a phone call. Tuesday, no call. By Tuesday afternoon, you’re like, “I’m not sure this works. I’m out.” And you cause a refund.”

I said, ‘We don’t have to be rocket scientists. We don’t have to try to figure out the flow of a client. Just live in his mindset. This guy has got so many questions going on and we’re not contacting him.” Immediately, 5 weeks ago, when I found this out, I created a relationship department, where they get the data within 12 hours of someone buying, preferably, if not less than 24. We have a relationship manager reach out and say, “Just wanted to let you know,” and I overcome those fears. “I want to let you know you got involved with the best company on the planet. It’s the greatest time,” and reiterate everything they got, how it’s going to be fulfilled, and let them know, “This is the only number you need. Call me anytime you need something.” Immediately, things changed on such a drastic level you can’t believe it, because we let everybody exhale.

Now, I’m only sharing that with you because it didn’t take a rocket scientist, it didn’t take theory, it didn’t take years of overanalyzing, it didn’t take adding more to the product. You know what it took? Just living in my customers head for a little bit. If I was the guy who spent the money, this is what I’d want. Again, guys, I know I can go all over the place. I’m sharing that because, a lot of times, we market so heavy to get that customer, and then we figure, “Hey, if we deliver the best information, product, wisdom, direction, whatever we’re delivering, that’s good enough,” and it’s not.   

Dean: That totally fits with what we talked about at the I Love Marketing conference. It’s really the profit activator about delivering a world-class experience for people. What we talked about at the event was just exactly what you have described; outlining the customer experience timeline, the client experience timeline as a narrative of what they actually experience. You just did a brilliant job of getting into their head of what happened before they walk out the door, their wife says, “Don’t buy anything,” they bought something, and they go home, and now all this stuff is going on in their minds.

So, what we do is look at that customer experience timeline, that dream line, and divide it into 2 things. Above the line, which is the most important part of that experience, is the things that the client is actually experiencing, the things that they actually see. All of the things below the line are the systems and the processes and the things that go on behind the scenes to support that vision that you have for that experience. Even though, just like you said, even though below the line, when somebody leaves, there are all of these wheels that are in motion, there are all of these things that are happening behind the scenes to get to a point where, 3 days later, they could finally call somebody. Up above the line, there’s silence. There’s nothing happening until they actually get that call.   

Dean G: Exactly. I’ve never put it above or below the line, Dean, but both of us know most companies are obsessively below the line.   

Dean: Exactly. You’re absolutely right. The way to unify, especially if you’ve got an organization like you have, where you’ve got different teams of people that are providing different interactions along that experience timeline, coordinating everybody and coordinating the communication between those teams. What really drives that unifying process is really engineering what happens above the line, and then setting up the system to support that experience, because that’s really the one that matters. That’s where it all happens.   

Dean G: As you grow as a company, in so many cases, the innovator, the crazy marketer, everybody listening right now, the crazy marketer does the crazy innovation and gets the people coming. And then to make your business grow, we hire more structure/service-oriented people, people that their desk is clean, they get things done, they’re there on time, and they create systems. Systems have nothing to do with above the- line experience. So, a lot of times, I feel like, Joe, you are so articulate. I’ve stolen so many things from you, because so many thoughts in my head, you have phrases or sayings that really clarify. But I think when I’m trying to share certain things with my team, I feel like the first person that said the Earth is round, the first person gets crucified and hung. I don’t know the exact flow that you said, Joe. Then it starts to become questioned and then it becomes the norm, right?   

Joe: I can say it right, but we got the point. I can say the exact quote, but we totally got the point.   

Dean G: You got the point. You can tell me later, again.   

Joe: Truth goes through 3 phases. First it is ridiculed, then it’s violently opposed, then it’s accepted as self-evident.   

Dean G: Right. As a marketer, we all have to remember, we’re going to think through the eyes of our client, our prospect. We have to camp out. Listen, the last time I was at 25K, Joe, you know what I drew on my book as we were all talking?   

Joe: What’s that?   

Dean G: I drew something very visual. I drew a picture of a tent, and I look at that tent all the time, because I need to camp out in my clients’ mind, not mine. This tent reminds me, all the time, where did I pitch my tent? Am I living in my mind, in my thoughts, in my sales guys’ thoughts, in my guys on the road thoughts, or am I living in my prospect? I need to camp out in my prospects’ mind. As marketers, we’re always camped out. We’d better be, or else we’re not making the money we want. If you’re camped out in your thoughts or your ideas, if you’re having a rough week and you’re camped out there, you’re not living in your prospects’ mind. So, if we’re always camped out there, every time we present somebody who’s more service-oriented or structure-oriented, we’re going to look like we’re saying the Earth is round when everybody thinks it’s flat. It’s going to be opposed and denied and thought as crazy.

So, we always have to fight for that. We always have to fight for the mindset of our client, especially as we grow, Dean, just what you’re saying. Right now, we have hundreds of people cross-communicating one level to the next, some live events, some being taught in their houses, some being taught in Vegas, some being taught all over the country, all these different things, and my biggest thing is to make sure that above the line, as you put it, is what’s first and foremost. The hard part about the thought process of that is so many people will focus on the sale or focus on trying to ethically bribe them to stick. But if they don’t have the above-the-line thought process or experience or camped out in their clients’ mind, no trick, no fancy stick, no fancy email, none of that will work if they’re truly not living the experience with their client.   

Dean: The thing is, when people are going through that experience, they’re experiencing it one person at a time. They don’t care or know any of the other thousands of people that may be going through that experience at the same time. It’s their personal experience.   

Dean G: Right. It’s their personal experience.   

Dean: When you’re designing that client experience timeline, you’ve got to get it to that one granular level. Don’t think about that as a group. All the times the thing about being able to grow and grow quickly is to be able to set up flawless systems underneath it that can support that one-on-one experience.   

Joe: Let me say a couple of things, too, that I think are pretty important takeaways that I got from just listening to you share this, Dean. It reminds me of a story like an event that happened a few years ago. It was on, of all things, a carpet cleaning industry bulletin board. This was years ago. I don’t even read this stuff anymore. But, basically, one of my clients would send out roses, have roses delivered after a carpet cleaning job, just saying thank you, and was just getting great results. It was so impressive to predominately the female in the household is the one that’s hiring the carpet cleaner, if there is a woman in the household. They just were getting great results, great referrals. And someone was slamming them, saying, “All of this marketing crap that you guys are doing, why don’t you just do a good job? That’s good enough. If you really focus this much on just doing a good job cleaning carpets, is all of this other newsletters…” just slamming all of these marketing methods and techniques that we teach, but we also know they work.

The person talked about just being a good craftsman is what you need to do in order to be successful, and it always struck me as being how stupid that sort of thinking, in and of itself, actually is. Of course, you want to deliver a good job. Of course, you want to be a good craftsman and whatever it is you do. But that’s not enough. We all know people that are some of the best in the world at delivering a service, creating a product or service, that are totally broke, that have put their life into trying to figure out build it and they will come, and they don’t. Marketing is really applied psychology. All of these things that you just discussed about getting inside the clients’ mind, that is where the magic is. If that is missing from – and it’s missing in most companies – one of the things you talk about all the time, you don’t need to be a rocket scientist to do this.

You actually just need to think about the person that you’re selling to. You need to think about their experience and put yourself in their shoes. How much time is spent getting training and learning things, but how little is spent on the psychology of the customer experience about communicating to them effectively after the job? Not just before the job, but as Dean says, before, during, and after. But, thinking those elements through and developing that. The tent analogy is fantastic. I think everybody listening to this should really – who do you want to pitch your tent to? If you have disdain for people that you’re selling to, then what are you doing selling to them? One thing that comes clear is that you’re excited about what it is you do because you’re excited about helping the people that you’re actually helping. This is not drudgery to you.   

Dean G: I said this. I said it at your event and I say it all the time. Everybody listening, if you want to immediately get a 25-50% bump in your sales, love your product so much that you would give it to your favorite relative and be so proud to hand it off to them. I mean that with all sincerity. That’s not a marketing angle. Let me just tell you. When I knew my product was literally the best on the planet, I knew that everybody in my family, I told them to get involved. When I knew that I hit that point where I loved my product so much, it’s about 5 or 6 years ago. Joe, you remember this transition. I threw away my teleprompters, threw away my scripts, and I did every one of my shows for the last 6 years with nothing, not even bullet points. Turn on the camera, I could shoot a half-hour infomercial. I could shoot a 35-minute online video presentation with no scripts, no prompts, nothing.

Here’s this distinction. I don’t go in front of a camera and say, “I’d better do a good job because I need to sell today. I want to sell to a whole bunch of people.” I don’t go onstage and go, “Man, I’m selling a product today. I’d better be on fire.” What I go on is, “I’m going to be doing every one of these people a disservice if I don’t live this passionately from the heart and get them involved in my product, because 2 things happen if they don’t buy my product. If they don’t me their credit card, they might give it to my competitors, who I feel are inferior to me; or, worse yet, they’ll do nothing and next year will be worse than last year.” When you truly believe in your product, I’m telling you, your copy that you write, the videos you shoot, or the people you hire that write for you, you will immediately take your level, you will take that value of that copy, the written word, to another level. Because when you’re so bought in that, you feel like you’re doing people a disservice by them not getting your credit card, your marketing will automatically get better.

I’ve watched it over and over again, where people just think, “Well, if they don’t buy my crap, they’ll buy someone else’s crap, and people don’t do shit anyway, so why should we even worry so much? 90% of people are going to throw this box.” Don’t make your product for the 90%. Make your product for the 7%. Make your product for your family member. Literally, there were so many different levels, I’m trying to get my team bought in on this next level stuff that they think I’m just so overboard on. I say, “If that was your favorite uncle, would you want him to wait 3 days to get a call? If that was your favorite uncle, would you do this?” And so many times they go, “No, I’d do it this way.” I said, “Well, just think about it. It’s your favorite uncle. Every time you do something, it’s your favorite uncle.” If your favorite uncle had money problems, if my favorite uncle had money problems, I would do everything passionately in my power to get him in my program. And whatever it is that you sell or you want to offer or your service, once you feel like that, your marketing automatically gets better.   

Joe: I love it.   

Dean: It’s brilliant.   

Joe: That’s all we need. We should just hang up right now, Dean.   

Dean: We’ve done it. 26 minutes and we’ve got it.   

Joe: We don’t want anyone waiting another 12 minutes here. They need to go now. This is Charlie Sheen stuff. Go. This is really, really good stuff, and I hope it’s resonating. I know it’s resonating with all our listeners. This is fantastic. The difference is, like with you, Dean, there are a lot of people that give pep talks and are great motivational speakers that don’t know how to actually convert it into money. You’re running a $100-million-a-year company. You have not only that, you have literally created many, many millionaires, and you’ve taken people that have been totally broke, hated their jobs, and literally, in a matter of weeks, put them into a new career and into a new life that they never even knew existed by giving them direction, confidence, and capabilities in this particular area. This is good.   

Dean G: When somebody is marketing, and people listening right now, they’re going to marketing everything under the sun, so it’s not just all about making money. It doesn’t matter what it is, whether it’s weight loss, money, a product, service, anything, your personal business. And I shared this, I think, at your live event – which was awesome, by the way.   

Joe: Yes, we are. This year. Yep. We are. And it will be awesome.   

Dean G: Take a plane, train, or automobile and get there. Anyway, I have to watch the mindset of America – and you can be all over the world when you’re listening to this, so you watch the mindset of where you are. But I have to watch the mindset of America and feel it and live it and camp my tent out in the minds of America more than probably anybody, because I cast a bigger net. When I go out on TV, I can’t target my audience. I can target the station, but I have to cast a really big net. I don’t get to go on Facebook and target people just looking for my product or AdWords, or a launch to a list that understands my product. I’m just going fishing in the ocean and I’m just driving out in the middle and dropping my line. So, I really have to understand how things swing.

Let me just tell you what I saw. This, right now, is worth a fortune to anybody who really understands what I’m about to say. When the economy changed, when the economy bombed, when it just fell off a cliff, when it first started going down, it put everybody in a frenzy. I use really simple analogies – and if you heard this if you were at Joe’s, I apologize for saying it again, but it’s that important. It’s like the Titanic going down. The economy, when it crashed, was like the Titanic going in the water. When people first hit the water, they were scared, panicked, freezing, and screaming. When the economy turned, people were screaming, panic, “Oh, my God, how am I going to get by? How am I going to deal with this?” It doesn’t matter if you want to make money, too. You felt that in your personal life. If your neighbor went into foreclosure, you go, “Oh, my God, my neighbor is in foreclosure!” A relative lost a job, “Oh my God! Oh my God! Everybody’s scared.”

At that point, people wanted live preservers. All they wanted to do is hold onto something, just so they wouldn’t drown. But here’s what happens. Again, using back to the analogy. People get in the water and they’re treading water for a while, they kind of get used to the cold water, they get used to some people around them drowning. You just get used to it. That’s kind of what happened with America. People aren’t looking for life preservers anymore, because they learned how to tread water. They got used to complacency, they got used to foreclosures in their neighborhood, they got used to their friends and family going into bankruptcy or losing their job. It’s no big deal anymore. We’re kind of, “Eh, that’s the way it is.” Right?

When you think about that, if your marketing worked when you were going on the lines of a scarcity mindset, it doesn’t matter what they are. People, even if it’s not money, they still have a scarcity mindset because of the money issues or the money issues around them. But what’s happened in the last year or so is people kind of got complacent. They kind of got, “Eh, this is the way it is.” So, your marketing has to change to reflect that. You may have to remind people of the anxiety or the pain that they have on a deeper level without your product, service, or what it is you offer them, the wisdom that you have. Just because of mindset, sometimes – this is the oldest line in marketing – if someone’s got a cut, you can give them a Band-Aid and Neosporin and hope they’re better. That marketing worked on the way down. Right now, you’ve got to rip the scab off, put salt on it, and remind them how much it hurts, and then give them Neosporin and the Band-Aid. You have to remind people of the pain, because they’ve gotten numb to it.

One of the things that I found, Joe, that a lot of marketers are afraid to do – and I see sales guys, in most cases, are really afraid to do – is bringing up the things that are negative about getting involved with you. That’s one thing that I’ve always been good at, Joe. You’ve watched me on camera and you’ve watched me onstage. I have no problem bringing up the thoughts that are going in their head, instead of just talking about, again, the bigger future, also talking about the things they’re in pain with, but also bringing up the things that they would be in question. For example, I don’t know if a lot of people watching, I love the part in 8 Mile…   

Dean: Eminem.   

Dean G: Eminem, right? He’s up onstage at the end, he got beat up, the one guy stole his girlfriend, he’s from a trailer park, all those things are true. They’re doing this rap gig back and forth. I guess they’re battling and they’re making fun of each other. It’s one of those movies I didn’t think I’d like, and I really enjoyed it. So, they’re battling each other, and this Papa Doc, or whatever his name is, he’s just going to destroy Eminem because all of these things happen. He got beat up, he’s got a black eye, his girlfriend was with somebody else, he’s broke, his mommy lives in a trailer park, and Eminem gets up and spews out all of the things. “Yeah, that’s right, I live in a trailer park, I live with my mom, this guy slept with my girlfriend, you beat me up, I got nothing.” He took away all of his ammunition, and by the time it got to the other guy to battle him, who was the best until Eminem was there, he had nothing to say.

That reminds me of marketing that I’m not afraid to do when I’m onstage, on camera, face-to-face, or on the phone with somebody. I will bring up, if my tent is in my prospects’ head, then I know what their fears, dangers, and stress is, so why not bring it up? Be daring to bring it up, rather than try to hide it with bigger results or future results-oriented stuff. That, in my marketing, in the last 6 months, I’ve really been obsessed with just exposing anything I think could be something that they would fear about being involved with me, and I bring it up. It’s been really powerful for me. So, I would examine your marketing, literally, when you get off listening to this. I would examine every bit of marketing you have right now and see if you’re talking too much about down the road, future results, everything is great. You’re appealing to a mindset that wants a bigger future, but you might not be appealing to the people who are scared to death and have these reservations about getting involved with you because you’re not addressing them. Figure out what their biggest anxiety is, bring it up right up front, and then give them the path and plan.   

Joe: I like it.   

Dean: That’s brilliant, though, because so many times they’re not things that, as long as you don’t keep them hidden, you’re shining the light on them, and you’re saying everything that somebody is already thinking, you’re acknowledging it, that makes it okay, I think. It’s fantastic.   

Dean G: I get onstage, I go to Vegas once a month. My top students are down there, and they spend, on average, $25,000. There’s at least 200 of them there every single month. I get onstage every month when I’m there. When I first started doing it, my partners who helped run all of these organizations would literally cringe because I’d get up onstage, and basically, I’d say, “Are you guys insane? You’ve never met me before, you saw an infomercial, and now you’re here to learn about real estate? You spent $25,000? Are you idiots?” And I’d watch the audience look around, and within 5 minutes, they’re cheering, high 5-ing each other. I said, “No, you’re not idiots. You are the people who want to pay for speed. You’re smart enough to realize that a path and plan to your end result is quicker once you get it from someone else.”

And then, I go into, “The most costly advice in the world is bad advice. How many people told you were you were nuts? Of course you are, but you’re a bunch of nuts.” I will bring up everything I can think of that they’re thinking about, sitting there. I’ll also say, “Here’s what I know. Some of you are sitting here knowing you’re going to do it. Others are sitting next to people who have more energy than you. They seem more excited than you. And you’re going, ‘Man, that guy is going to do it, but I’m not sure I can.’” I say, “How many people feel that way?” Half the audience always raises their hands. And then, I go into why they can and who I’ve seen in the past. I obsess on figuring out what their anxieties are, and then I bring them out to the light, as transparent as you can be. And, believe me, I’ve scared a lot of people thinking, “Dude, why are you going to bring that up? You’re shining a light.” Dean, you just said something I’ve never heard before. No, the light is 10 times brighter when you try to cover it.   

Joe: That’s an interesting quote, that the light is 10 times brighter when you try to cover it.   

Dean G: Think about this. How many times with a girlfriend, boyfriend, spouse, husband, wife. You guys both know something is bothering you, but you don’t bring it up because you don’t really want to argue about it, so you just kind of ignore it and you’re kind of dull in the household, but maybe it will just go away. You go through and you could go a week of this dullness. Then finally, you go, “Honey, I’ve just got to tell you,” and you blurt it out, and in 5 minutes, you guys are laughing, having the time of your life. The light was 10 times brighter when you tried to just stuff it down.   

Dean: That’s funny.   

Joe: I’ve been telling Dean Jackson that about having real conversations with his wife for a while now, Dean, and you just need to come clean with her. Publicly, I want to get support from the I Love Marketing community, Dean Jackson, to really just shine that light, dude. Let her know what you’re capable of. Let her know what you’re thinking, what’s bugging you. Seriously, it’s time to step up. I know this is really about a marketing call, but this is strategically an intervention between me and Dean.   

Dean: It’s suddenly become an intervention.   

Joe: It’s a weird roundabout way that we had to get to helping you here.   

Dean G: What everybody should post below is their number one… You have comments, obviously, underneath, right? Everybody should post below, if you camped out in your clients’ mind, if you really lived in their lifestyle, looked through their glasses, what is your clients’ number one anxiety, not about life but about getting involved with you? See, there’s 2 levels. There’s also what’s their biggest stress of life that you can cure? There’s 2 things to remember. One is you’re curing some kind of anxiety in their life, whether it’s losing weight, making money, a product, a service, going to a chiropractor, to anything on the planet. What you provide lessens their anxiety, lessens their pain, and can make them better. So, that’s one thing.

But I want you to think about what’s the number one anxiety of your prospect, of getting involved with you? What could that be? Is it the price, is it the product, is it how you market, you don’t have enough experience, they feel it’s not worth it? Joe, you were in the toughest business in the world. Who wants carpet cleaning? It’s like going to the dentist for a root canal. But you figured a way to make people understand if they’re going to make that decision, they need to choose your clients. It’s the same here. You know, for a fact, what the anxiety is of the client to choose a carpet cleaner. You should list what that anxiety is; because if you’re not thinking about it, you’re not going to the level of success that you deserve.   

Joe: Which goes to my whole point which was why I think, Dean, you just have it so nailed here and this is such good advice, is going back to my comment about the person being a craftsman. You can be really skilled, you can go to college and get technical training, you can really understand how to fix a car, do this, do that. But it doesn’t matter how good your product or service is or what it does until after somebody buys it. And even after they buy it, there’s a whole other process, too. Your whole point about do you want to call your uncle, that you really care about, 3 days later? No, you want to act on it right now. This is literally engaging with human beings, understanding the mindset of the person, the prospect, and customers that you’re selling to, and delivering as best as humanly possible on that, not because it’s just the right thing to do, it’s the only thing that’s going to set you up in a situation to where you really have a very highly functioning business or even create wealth.

How well would Apple or any of these companies do without the engagement that they have with their clients? Behind an iPad, behind an iPhone, behind many of these great technologies that are simple on the surface, underneath it is a tremendous amount of complexity. People don’t want to hear about the labor pains, they just want to see the baby. You need to really deliver that sort of experience, and that’s what I think you’re so good at, and I think that’s why you’ve been so successful. In the very beginning, did you understand any of this?   

Dean G: No. But especially being close to you, Joe, I’ve been obsessed with marketing for years now, and I never want to stop being obsessed with it; because if I’m not obsessed with marketing, then I don’t get my material in people’s hands, I don’t have a successful business, and I’m not changing lives. Even what you were saying before, Joe, most people that I see that are obsessed with their product can’t sell shit. And it’s unfortunate, because they live in their product so much that they almost feel guilty about spending time to market it. It’s a tough mindset.   

Joe: Wait, let me back up with what you just said. People that live inside their product can’t sell shit. Of course, there’s always the exceptions where someone just happens to stumble upon something that the marketplace just really wants, needs, and desires, and then people somehow think that’s going to happen for them. They take these anomalies where something just happens, and all of a sudden, everything should be so easy. You shouldn’t have to do this marketing stuff.   

Dean: We’ve talked about that before, the 3 of us. We’ve talked about people who have put all the time and effort into the product and then say, “95% of the work is done. All I’ve got to do now is the easy part – just figure out the marketing.”   

Joe: Yeah, you remember that conversation, Dean?   

Dean G: I’ll give you a prime example, and we won’t take much longer. I think we gave a lot of really good stuff.   

Dean: Just so you know, we’re going for 20 more minutes.   

Dean G: Let me just share with you a conversation from this weekend.   

Dean: We’ve got you for an hour.   

Dean G: Oh, alright. Let me just tell you. I ran a 5K 3 weeks ago.   

Joe: What’s wrong with you?   

Dean G: What’s that?   

Joe: When did this happen? When’s Dean Graziosi running, all of a sudden?   

Dean G: Okay, not only did I run a 5K, out of 750 people, I came in 51st, and in my age bracket, I came in 3rd, which is pretty good because I’ve never ran in my life up until 6 months ago. Anyway, I ran it in 23 minutes. I’m proud of that. At 43, I think I crushed it. Anyway. That’s a whole other story. I’m an obsessive A-type personality.   

Joe: Okay, so what’s the point behind that? You ran a 5K.   

Dean G: I get done running the race and I run it with my wife. I didn’t wait for her. She’s like you. Anyway, I waited for her at the end, and she ran it with a couple of friends. These friends own, in Phoenix here, it’s a workout facility for women, and it’s doing okay. This one girl who ran the race is at breakfast with me. I’ve got a hat on. She doesn’t recognize me. She just knows me as Joanell’s husband. She’s talking about she’s going to open up one of these workout facilities for women, and she’s telling me – and I love her to death – I’m listening to her, and all she’s talking about is the product and what it does for women. I said, “What are you doing about marketing?” Well, they’re basically, “If you open it, they will come. Right?”

I said, “So how many stores are there in the valley?” She said 4. “Are any of them making money?” She said, “Not really.” I said, “So, you’re planning on just creating another job for yourself.” She said, “Well, here’s the thing. The owner believes that her training – the owner who is now franchising and selling these outside offices to moms all over that want something to do – the owner is so passionate about what she teaches, and she knows it’s the best training for women available, she thinks selling and pushing hard with marketing is very unethical. She won’t let me write marketing stuff on a blog,” and she went into this whole thing.

I just started giving her advice, and halfway through the advice, she goes, “Oh, my God, now I know where I recognize you, I’ve watched you on TV for years!” And then she got freaked out and she didn’t want to talk to me anymore, because she got intimidated. I was just Joanell’s husband, with a hat on. But, what I realized is so many people live in that world that it’s like pushing a rope uphill. If she realized that if she truly feels that she has the best product, that she should be the best marketer, ethically bribing people, doing what she can to get their credit card, because if they don’t go to her training, they’ll go to the inferior one down the street with better marketing. Better marketing always wins. Better product wins sometimes. Better marketing always wins.   

Joe: You’re right.   

Dean G: It was just a really difficult conversation, and it made me realize that, Joe, me you and Dean, we live in this world where we know how good we have to be in marketing. When you step outside that world, you realize, we are the rare breed. The people listening on this phone call, listening to this podcast, are rare, because you realize that if we don’t have fine-tuned, razor-sharp skills to market, understand our prospect, camp out in their mind, look through their eyes, enter conversations they already have, truly understand that if we don’t do that, we don’t stay in business.   

Joe: Dean – it’s funny I say Dean, because that can apply to both of you – it’s nauseating to me that so many people actually would even say something so stupid as selling and marketing is unethical and it’s pushy and this and that. There are certain situations where, yes, you can manipulate people, yes, you can use a technique. The analogy I think I’ve made in a couple of episodes is saying marketing is bad is like saying oxygen is bad. The human body cannot exist without it any more than a business is not going to succeed without marketing. When someone does succeed without marketing, there’s still marketing taking place, they just don’t notice it; meaning if you are the first to a particular category and you invent something that every human being wants and they like it, then they just tell everyone about it.

So, even when something goes viral and no one had to run an advertisement for it or something, or create a video sales letter or write a sales copy and something just takes off, it’s usually because of word of mouth. That’s still marketing. There’s always marketing taking place. Why do you think, Dean – and I asked Eben Pagan the same question – why do you think people look down on marketing? I always say that what people are not up on, they’re down on. And if they don’t understand it, it’s more of a human tendency to just slam it or to make fun of it or to discount it or flat out attack it than it is to try to get it, to try to embrace it. Why do you think we live in this anti-marketing?   

Dean G: Joe, I have never thought about that question. As you’re asking me, as I’ve never thought about that question, you’ve never asked me, but as you were asking me, what immediately came to mind is this. You do a little exercise that I think is phenomenal. When you say to people, “When you’re at your best, what are you? You’re inspirational, you’re excited, you’re motivated, you’re charming, you’re persuasive.” You do that little exercise, right? When you’re selling or marketing, don’t all of those same attributes stick? When you’re onstage, you have to be charming, enticing, motivated, excited, full of energy, full of life.

In life, most people, what they’re not up on, they’re down on, most people are down on somebody who seems excited, happy, full on life. It sounds like I’m a negative person. There are a lot of negative people out there, a lot of miserable people out there. So, if you’re selling, if you’re on top of your game, if you’re enthusiastic and excited, they’re going to look down on that immediately, no matter what. And I think maybe that’s one of the reasons salespeople supposedly have gotten this negative attachment, is because they have to live in a space that most people can’t get their bodies to.   

Joe: Exactly.   

Dean G: And then, of course, people look at selling. Selling just seems like it has this negative thing attached to it. Not that selling and marketing have their alliances, they’re not the same exact thing. Sales are the end of result of really good marketing. People who attack my books, I’ll get really highly – and this is no disrespect – very academic writers, one guy, for example, wrote a real estate book that probably sold 10,000 copies, and he’s a college professor/real estate guy. He went on and gave me just this horrible review. His first line was, “Dean has no formal education. The book is written like a conversation.” Just tore my book apart. But at the end of the day, he’s probably sold 20,000 copies. That book he talked about, I sold over a million copies and had more successful students because of that book than anyone that’s ever had in the history of successful real estate.

If you even took the percentages, I probably outdid him as far as success. His book was a very good what real estate is. My book was the blueprint on actually how to put cash in your freaking pocket. Maybe I write like I talk, but my book gets results. But he trashed me and it really bugged me, because he was a college professor. He goes, “I don’t even think he went past high school.” I read that as a badge of honor, not as something I want to be criticized for. I think some people are just bred with that thought process. “Dean is just a slick sales guy.” No, I get people engaged on going to a bigger level in their life, and I don’t care how I do it. If I get to change lives, I’ll sell, I’ll yell, I’ll scream, I’ll do whatever.   

Joe: That’s good. How do you recommend handling criticism, scrutiny, things like that? If you’re a marketer or not, whenever you reach any certain level of success, you simply become a target for envy and jealousy. Granted, if you’re doing bad things and you’re hurting people and you’re selling crap in a box, yeah, you deserve it. I’m talking about like when you really are out there working your ass off, you really want to help people, you really care, you’re putting out good stuff, and you still have people that just attack you and try to ridicule you because you’re a public figure. How do you mentally cope with that? Deal with it? Ignore it? What’s your process?   

Dean G: I have to be honest. It still bugs me. I’d lie if I say I got to where I’m just numb, because I know the hours, the time, the energy and the focus I have to change people’s lives. But, I think it’s the people who also criticize capitalism. I think it’s just going to happen. Warren Buffet or Bill Gates, he’s criticized the capitalism, but he’s singlehandedly donated more money to charities and helping people’s lives than any other human being that’s ever existed in the world. But he’ll be criticized because he’s a capitalist. I just think there’s a certain percentage of people that will criticize you, no matter what. So, here’s the thing. I give no disrespect to the person who gives their whole life to help people out, and gets on a plane and flies to Africa and lives there and helps his whole life. That’s an amazing thing. But do we dog Bill Gates because he’s helped support maybe a half a million people to go to Africa and help? He chose a different path.

If we can appreciate both, you feel like everybody should appreciate both, but they don’t. I think you’re going to get that. It still bugs me. What people don’t realize online is there’s so many websites that look like it’s somebody just complaining, and it’s really another marketer saying you’re a piece of crap so they can sell their products. But when I find true people that will dog me and I know they didn’t go through my process. They’ll say, “Yeah, you sell some piece of crap book and then he’s going to try to slam me into additional training.” It’s like, no, I sell the most amazing book on the planet and some people need their hands held and they can go to the best training on the planet.

But a lot of times, I will reach out directly to them and say, “How about I send you all of my books and you really read them, and then just give me an honest review?” And it starts this rapport. And about 50% of the people, I end up with apologies and they take their stuff down. But there’s this certain group that even when you reach out like that, they’ll say, “Don’t try to put your sales spin on me, you piece of piece of garbage,” they’re just people who hate the world. If they targeted restaurants, they would dog restaurants. If they targeted air travel, they’d target Continental or American airlines. There’s nothing you can do with a certain percentage of the population. They’re going to hate you for your success, no matter how you got there. I bet Mother Theresa had critics someplace.   

Joe: Everyone does. Oprah, if you were to read her hate mail. In fact, in today’s day and age, you can read her hate mail. People post it on YouTube. Anyway, the reason I wanted to bring that up is because in order for someone to be successful, Dean, because you’ve had some pretty fantastic financial success and you continually keep growing and growing and growing, what are the tradeoffs? What do they have to do? What do they have to give up? What are the sacrifices and what are the things that you really need to have, and what are the things you need to not have? If you could, maybe talk about a few of them.   

Dean G: A couple of things you have to give up – and this is going to sound tough and brutal – is you’re going to have to give up some people in your life, hands-down. When you go to another level, people are going to think that you’ve changed, you’re not the same person. It’s only because you’re changing so much and they can’t keep up with you that their defense mechanism is to try to hold you back. I know that sounds very foo-foo and not has anything to do with business, but it’s a reality. I look back, and I had to let go a lot of people in my life, some family. I love them, I still wish them the best during my prayers – not that everybody here prays, but they’re in my prayers – but it doesn’t mean they’re a daily part of my life.

For me, I stopped watching the news years ago, because I can’t handle all of the negativity. There’s only a certain amount of time in the day. If you really want to go to another level, you might have a family. I have 2 little kids. I want to be an amazing dad. I still want to go to the gym in the morning. If I’m going to fit that stuff in, I can’t fit in 4 seconds of negative news, negative conversation. I refuse to be involved in negative conversation. I refuse to hang out with people who see the glass half empty and want to just talk about how wrong things are. I don’t mind talking about how bad things are, if they can give me a possible solution. So, I’ve eliminated a lot of that in my life. I think one thing you’ve got to realize – and Joe, we talk about this all the time – why do we attract to each other? You and I aren’t best friends. We don’t hang out every single Sunday. But when we’re around each other –and same with you, Dean, I see you once a quarter – it’s like we’ve known each other for 50 years. We talk about tomorrow; we don’t talk about yesterday.

I don’t have many people in my life that have bigger pasts. Everybody in my life has a bigger future mindset. We talk about how it can get better, where tomorrow can be. I just don’t think there’s time in a day. One of the things, Joe, you said, in one of our 25K groups is that entrepreneurs sometimes live a lonely life. I don’t think lonely as like sad, boo-hoo, I’m crying. It just means not many people understand you, not many understand the people on this phone. Most people on this phone that want more out of life. Most people in your family think you’re nuts, you’re a dreamer. What I realized is there’s abundant mindsets and scarcity mindsets. The people with abundant mindsets, the rest of the world think you’re just a dreamer. You listen to this podcast to take your business to the next level, there’s certain amount of people in your life who will think you’re just a dreamer. “Get real! Get a job! Be miserable, like the rest of us.”

So, you’ve got to realize there’s going to be lonely parts, and the loneliness is not the sad, boo-hoo, it’s not a lot of people are going to understand you, especially when your business starts cranking. My dad just came here. He’s here for a couple of days, and he’ll be here for Easter. My dad looks at me like I’m insane, like he just doesn’t even understand. He barely knows what I do, because it’s so out of his mindset that I’m just nuts to him. And the last thing I’ll say is remember, as entrepreneurs, as people that are leaders, as wanting more out of life, we have to say yes to so many things that most people say no to. We say yes to sacrificing working more hours. We say yes to partners we may not want to be partners with. We say yes to missing our child’s recital because it was a day you were part of a launch and you’re trying to get something done, or you’re working on a project that needs to be complete.

We say yes to a lot of things that most people won’t. We sacrifice more than ever. What I realized, and this is working for me huge right now, there’s a certain level that the yeses get you there, but the no’s take it all the way. And that just means be careful what you say yes to, because when you say yes to one thing, you’re saying no to something else. Joe, that’s one of your lines. It’s absolute truth. So, value your time. Say no to the things that if it’s not taking you to the goal, if it’s not good for the universe, not good for your family or not good for you, then really consider just saying no to it. And, make sure we don’t take on so many projects. All I know is I’ve gone sideways and opened up a lot of businesses when things were going. Nothing has ever brought me the money than going deeper on the thing I was good at, going deeper in my unique ability, going deeper on my brand. Yeses got you here, no might take you across the finish line.   

Joe: That’s fantastic.   

Dean: How would you take that to the beginning, here? How would you take that? You’re coming at this – and you’ve learned a lot of lessons, taking and building what you have to $100-million plus – what would you do now, for somebody listening who they’ve got that passion, they’ve got the great product, they believe that their favorite uncle would be completely benefited by this? What would you think would be the path to start that growth pattern? What would you, having learned all of the lessons that you’ve learned, going from zero to $100 million, how would you translate that to somebody?   

Dean G: What Joe said in the beginning, a word I’ve been using a lot lately – marketing stamina. Joe, you know what one of the reasons that word is in my mind? I’ve been in your 25K group since day one, right? I’m one of the first people that cut you a check. I’ve only missed one or 2 since the beginning. You’ve been sayings, since the beginning, everybody in here should have a sales letter, no matter what. Right or wrong? Some of the people that have been in there since the beginning with me still are saying, “I know. I’ve got to get that done.” And it just boggles my mind, and that’s exactly my thoughts. If I was starting in the beginning, I would have marketing stamina out of the gate. If you have that product that your uncle should use, that you love, want everybody to have it, then do whatever the hell you can to keep testing and tweaking, and never give up on your message until a lot of people pull out their credit card.

If your sales copy doesn’t work, tweak it, tool it, get a new copywriter. If it’s working decent, change the headlines. Work on it. Have the stamina to test and tweak until it’s a fine-oiled machine – your marketing. Let me just tell you something. The money that marketing brings can fix all of your other problems. Don’t spend all of the money. So many people spend so much on the infrastructure and then lean over to the marketing. Marketing money can build your infrastructure.   

Joe: I love that, the marketing money can solve all of your other business problems. That is true. The whole thing about a sales letter, like one of the things being Dean talk about behind the scenes, too, is that all of the people that are listening to I Love Marketing. The big difference between the ones that are really going to be entertained by it or learn a few things versus really get rich from it are ones that will take action and will do what needs to be done. If we say, “Write a sales letter,” you will figure out how to write a sales letter. People are like, “Oh, I’m so busy. I’ve got this, I’ve got that.” It’s like what are you so busy doing that you can’t sit down and do the most important thing that needs to be done?

Even with you, Dean, in the last few months, you have made a fantastic physical transformation. You have already had all kinds of success rituals and success habits, and they’ve been applied at different times at different parts of your life, and you decided, “You know what? I’m going to really kick ass on fitness, so I’m going to develop some success rituals related to that.” You’re a guy that just puts your mind to something and, boom, you do it. These are things that are available to every single person. The funny thing about you not having a college education, hell, you hardly even read. You’re just a guy that just goes out there and does stuff. You get shit done, and it pisses off a lot of people because it doesn’t make any sense to them. “He hasn’t done this, he hasn’t done that.”   

Dean G: Actually, you exaggerate, because you say I hardly ever read. I don’t ever.   

Joe: I was trying to be nice, because I assume you read an email here and there.   

Dean G: No, I read emails, just not books. But why read books – for me, I’m friends with Joe Polish. Literally, you read and absorb everything. So, when I want something, I call you.   

Joe: I know. It’s true. That’s the thing that we’re doing here, too, because in a lot of ways with you spending an hour with us on this I Love Marketing episode, you’ve really downloaded 20+ years of wisdom and business wisdom and marketing wisdom, and the most important mindset points. And this is free. That’s what amazes me about it. One thing that all of our clients can do for us is listen to what the hell Dean said today, and put a lot of these principles into action, and understand the mindset of the person you’re wanting to sell to. Develop the marketing stamina. That doesn’t mean develop it next week, that means develop it right now. After you’ve heard this, what is the outcome that you want to get as a result of what you’ve heard Dean Graziosi talk about today, and make it happen. That’s how you turn shit around. That’s how you make your life better.   

Dean G: What I would say is the things you hear on I Love Marketing, my final words of advice, think less and do. These aren’t ideas. I didn’t bring any ideas to the table today, guys. Everybody listening, just so you know, none of these are ideas. These are all things that have blessed with me with generating $1-billion dollars on my brand, having an amazing reputation, and changing a whole bunch of lives. I’m no smarter than anybody on this listening right now. All I’ve done is been diligent on understanding my prospect, climbing inside their mind, and helping them have a bigger life, and I’ve been rewarded from it. If that’s what you want, then be obsessive, have marketing stamina, listen to I Love Marketing, and do it.   

Joe: That’s awesome, Thank you. Dean Jackson, you want me to do the final word or do you want to do it?   

Dean: I think that was perfect. Dean, thank you so much. Every time I’m listening to these, you and I, Joe, are blessed in that we’re kind of creating the podcast that we would love to listen to. It’s just kind of cool that we get to hang out with all of these great people, we get to bring all of this to the I Love Marketing podcasts.   

Joe: Yeah, and also, Dean Graziosi, in the beginning, we really wanted to establish who was Batman and who was Robin out of this relationship here. I think, unanimously, it’s definitely me. What are your thoughts on that?   

Dean G: I have no comment on that.   

Joe: If you could be any superhero, Dean Graziosi, who would you be? Not Wonder Woman, though. Other than that.   

Dean G: She did have cool bracelets, though.   

Joe: What do you think?   

Dean G: I don’t know. That’s a tough one. I have no comment on that one.   

Joe: I love how we throw people. We asked Tim Ferris, when we were our interview with him, Joe said, “Who do you like better, me or Dean?” And he said, “I dislike both of you people.”   

Dean G: That’s a good one.   

Dean: It’s the perfect answer.   

Dean G: Actually, you know who I like? I would be what’s-his-name. I just watched it with my kids. I have little kids. It was Brad Pitt.   

Dean: Oh, Megamind.   

Dean G: Megamind. I’d be Megamind. He’s the underdog.   

Joe: Dean, if someone wants to read your books, follow what you’re doing, where do they go?   

Dean G: Just get a bunch of free wisdom at DeanGraziosi.com. There’s more free wisdom at that site than any of my competitors charge for, so just go there.   

Joe: Perfect. You also asked the listeners to make some comments below about – what was it – the marketing mindset.   

Dean G: Yeah. The comment below would be what’s the biggest anxiety your client would have for getting involved with you or your company?   

Joe: This has been fantastic, Dean. We really appreciate you taking the time.   

Dean: Joe, you know what I’ve already decided? I was just saying to Joe, our next episode, Joe, the one that you and I are going to record this week, I think we need to do an episode, the one where Dean and Joe talk about Dean Graziosi. There’s so much depth to this stuff that I think you and I could do a whole episode talking about all of the stuff that we talked about.   

Dean G: Dean, I’ve got a quick question. Have you ever done a follow-up with anybody else like that before?   

Dean: We did with Gary Vaynerchuk. We did an episode with him.   

Dean G: Maybe you should have 2 for me, then, 2 follow-ups.   

Dean: Most of the stuff we did about Gary is we were talking about stuff we didn’t really agree with, so this is going to be the stuff that we actually agree with.   

Dean G: Nice. Now I feel better. You always have a way of making me feel better. You guys are awesome, and you’re doing an amazing thing with I Love Marketing.   

Joe: We appreciate it. And maybe we’ll have you pop by our conference this year again. Everyone, we have all of this recorded. Dean did an amazing job, as did Eben Pagan, Robert Cialdini, and Dan Kennedy, and all of this craziness we had at the I Love Marketing event. You can get those DVD’s at ILoveMarketing.com, and they’re awesome. We really, really appreciate it. This is some great stuff. Wish you massive continued success. After we end the call, we don’t have to be so professional, and I’ll criticize you about something, if I can think of something.   

Dean G: Cool. God forbid you leave me on such a high note.   

Joe: Thank you.

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