Episode #21

The one about naming (from the car)

Episode 21:

  • First ever I Love Marketing CarCast
  • Dean shares his primary approach to naming
  • Joe and Dean share their thoughts on logos and branding
  • PLUS: How people use names as a shortcut in their decisions

Dean: I’m Dean Jackson. He’s Joe Polish. And this is the I Love Marketing podcast. Hey everybody, it’s Dean Jackson.  

Joe: And Joe Polish.  

Dean: And we’re driving in the car today.  

Joe: We are driving in the car.  

Dean: We’ve got an hour, right now, that we thought, you know what, it’s been a while since we did a I Love Marketing, just me and Joe.  

Joe: In a car.  

Dean: In a car. It’s been a long time. This is the first time we’ve ever done it in a car.  

Joe: You know, last time I did a genius network interview in a car, it wasn’t even called genius network back then. It was called the Joe Polish Superstar audio tape of the month program, and that was in 1996.  

Dean: And was that with Terry?  

Joe: Yeah, it was with Terry.  

Dean: Terry Hunefeld.  

Joe: It was ridiculous. It was one of the highest rated interviews at the time that I did, because he had come and see me do a full day seminar to professional cleaners and it was interesting. So, we were driving from Detroit to; I don’t even know where, Chicago or something.  

Dean: Grand Rapids.  

Joe: Something. I don’t even know. But, it was funny. So, we decided to do a I Love Marketing.  

Dean: Car cast.  

Joe: Yeah, car cast. And here’s the deal. We are waiting to get a call from Dan Smith, who runs the strategic coach, Dan Solomon’s partner and also David Bock. So, we’re waiting to get calls in the car from these guys.  

Dean: We can have special guests.  

Joe: And you know what the deal is. If that happens, I’ll probably hit pause. So we’re not going to edit this thing, we’re just going to talk, and we’re on our way to lunch with a guy by the name of Craig Valentine, a real smart dude. He has a program called Turbulence Training, and he basically teaches people how to get in shape. He’s written for men’s magazines and has sold just tons of information products and training materials from people wanting to get in better shape. And the reason I bring that up, is 3 it makes me think about one of the subjects we’re going to talk about, which is how you name things, is one part of it. But there’s a bigger picture that we wanted to talk about on his episode of, I Love Marketing, in the car, and that is naming things and how locations and names change the response that you get from your marketing. And the name, Turbulence Training, you know, Coffee, I don’t know, would work as well as maybe Turbulence Training. Because if you think of the term, “turbulence”, in an airplane, it shakes, it moves around, but in the area of like fitness and changing things up in your workouts, it tends to be kind of a cool name. It sounds pretty hardcore. It sounds pretty awesome. But anyway, so Dean, let’s first ask you, what do you think of the importance of naming your company, your product, your service, you know, packaging, anything along those lines?  

Dean: Well, I really like naming things so that it’s exactly what you get. Like, I like names like Stop Your Divorce, where you know exactly what you’re going to get. One of the best names that I’ve come across lately, and I was going to do them a little video. I’ll do it when I get back to Florida. In the food court at the mall, all the restaurants are there. You’ve got Taco Bill, you’ve got Sparrow, and you’ve got China Panda or something like that, an ice cream place and then there’s one place called, Tasty Burger.  

Joe: Tasty Burger.  

Dean: Tasty Burger. And you think like, I’ve got to try a tasty burger. You feel like Samuel Jackson in Pulp Fiction, tasting it and going, “Mmm, this is a tasty burger.” But, you know, when you say things like that, when you name stuff that people know exactly what it is, it always reminds me of Dan Kennedy would always tell a story about this guy that came and had a weed killer that was named, Formula Five X or something that doesn’t give you any indication of what it is and you know, you’ve got to imagine the end user. You’re at the hardware store or the home depot or whatever and you’re looking in the weed section, and then there’s, you know, Formula Five X, and there’s all these things, and Dan recommended that the guy call it, Kills Weeds Dead. When you’re looking at the thing, it’s like, why is somebody buying weed, killer? Because they want to kill weeds dead. I mean, what does this one do? Because you look at them and the labels all say, you know, this is for ragweed and dandelions, and you’ve got to look at the label and see what it’s for. And his was, Kills Weeds Dead. It’s like a perfect name.  

Joe: I love it. I love it. It’s obvious. For one, I think most business owners that don’t understand marketing will spend more time coming up with a logo, than they will with a name. And the name, I think, is infinitely more important than a logo could ever be.  

Dean: Of course it is. Do you know, the history of logos came around back in the day when people couldn’t read, and they would have a logo so that people could identify it by what it looked like. And so, you start to think about logos are just so much less important than a name.  

Joe: I think people will spend more money hiring graphic firms and design and stuff, than they will ever, hire copywriters. I know people that have always paid to have layouts done and graphics done, that have never spent money on a copywriter. And a copywriter is so infinitely more important and more valuable than design. The truth is, I have a full-time designer on staff, and we have Piranha Marketing Design. We actually have a design company within my organization, but one of the things we’re 4 very clear on, is that any sort of design, be it a photo, a picture, artwork, animation, anything along those lines, an illustration, it really is there to enhance the copy or vice versa. It’s not as a stand-alone. I mean, I have never seen anyone that is a small business owner that doesn’t have a gigantic company that already does have an “established brand”, ever be able to sell anything based on just a graphic. I mean, you know, have you?  

Dean: No. There’s a great deal of comfort that you maybe get from something that is designed really well. Like, you look at design-centric companies, like Apple is really a design-centric company, but it’s secondary to the fact that they’ve got a very good product. I mean, the product is killer, and it’s wrapped in a killer design. And I think that goes a long way, but you can’t just kind of put lipstick on a pig. You don’t make it and think that that’s the best thing. My approach to design is, I like things to look good and you do feel good when things look good, but I think that comes secondary to the results and secondary to the actual information or the product.  

Joe: We just drove a semi-truck on the freeway heading from Georgetown to Toronto, and there’s a semi that said, “Very Big Mac”. Now, if people were not associated with McDonald’s, what would that even mean right? But you will see so many companies that try to emulate these big brand companies thinking that’s going to do it for them. But the bottom line, I understand when people say brand building and what they’re trying to get at, which is, people are going to know me, and they’re going to do business with me and that sort of association, but most of the time, I just want to cringe. My favorite definition of brand came out of Ogilvy on Advertising by David Ogilvy, where he talked about your brand is really the personality of your product and service.  

Dean: And that’s just a great way of looking at it. When I hear, “I need to build my brand. I need to build my brand”, and I’ve spent a great deal of time with Richard Branson, Virgin really is a brand. Richard and his company Virgin, gets paid nowadays – it’s kind of like what Dan Kennedy said in our interview with Dan – not for what they do, but who they are, right. Because you can now slap Virgin on a lot of different products or services and make an immediate, positive association, depending of course, on the particular area. I mean, there’s certain things you can’t slap just a brand on to make it work and Virgin’s one of those unique things where it really can work in many different environments and many different sorts of things. But most companies can’t do that and certainly, most small business owners, if they’re going to go out and just say, “I want to build my brand”, well, what does that actually mean? And what they start doing, is they start focusing on logos and stuff.  

Dean: That’s what I was just going to say.  

Joe: Slogans.  

Dean: That that’s what most people confuse with their brand. They confuse as the visual elements, the logo and the colors and the look and all that stuff.  

Joe: And when I hear my friends that really don’t understand marketing and are like, “Yeah, I want to build a brand, I want to build my brand”, it’s like, what are you even selling? I mean, are you selling anything yet? “Well, no, no. I want to build a list. I want to build my brand.” It’s like, you know, you can’t deposit name recognition in the bank. You just can’t. You can’t go down to the bank and say, “Here’s my brand, here’s my 5 logo. How much will you give me for it?” I mean, all you can deposit is cheques. If you even use cheques anymore. I think marketers understand what cheques are.  

Dean: Those paper things.  

Joe: Yeah, people write on them. The point is, you cannot, off name recognition alone, develop a business if you don’t have something of substance. I mean, you can come up with a very clever slogan, you could have a really nicely designed artwork, but your analogy with Apple is true. I mean, there’s a lot of really cool electronic components that are created that never sell anything, because there’s a whole method to it and Apple is elegant, because they have also spent billions of dollars over the year, developing a market.  

Dean: And that’s the thing though, is design …  

Joe: Forever 21. Now, here look, we’re driving by something, and now that’s cool. It not only says, “Forever 21”, but on the outside on the freeway, it says, “Forever 21.com”, which is much different than just the names.  

Dean: We’ll check that out and call us and tell us what it is. But it doesn’t tell us what it is.  

Joe: Well, I know what it is. It’s women’s clothing.  

Dean: Is it?  

Joe: Yeah.  

Dean: You know about women’s clothing?  

Joe: Of course. How could you not?  

Dean: Is that where you get all your sexy negligees?  

Joe: You watch Martha Stewart every night.  

Dean: I do.  

Joe: Why do you watch Martha Stewart? Let’s talk about that.  

Dean: Well, Martha Stewart has certainly built up brands. But what her focus has been, is on creating great content and that’s really far more important I think, that the brand is driven from the content more than the look. Now, it just happens, that part of her brand is the aesthetic, because she’s very focused on that too. But, what I started to say when you talked about Forever 21, is that I would put expenditures, like if I’m spending my money on things and I have a limit to the amount of money to spend on something, I wouldn’t put design at the top of that list of things to spend money. I would put the money into creating a great product and selling it, before I put it into the branding, into the design elements of it. You have to agree, that as much information products as Dan Kennedy has sold, he has also put out probably some of the ugliest products that you’ve ever seen.  

Joe: Absolutely. And still does. 6  

Dean: And still does. And doesn’t put any emphasis on design at all, but the content is a killer.  

Joe: Right. And of course, there’s certain types of audiences, and there’s certain sorts of packaging where you use things and not. For instance, like in the DVD and information marketing world, if you have a really pretty, full colored DVD, as an example, in a case, it’s going to look like a move that you can buy at Target or Walmart for 15 bucks, or 20 bucks, or 30 bucks, 40, 50 at the most maybe. And if you’re going to sell a DVD with really killer information, like my triple X *0:15:18.8 recordings, which are recordings of audios I originally recorded on a cassette tape, we of course then have put onto CD. They have a cover, but they’re not made to look like some Hollywood production. We sell them for hundreds of dollars more than you would sell in audio music or something.  

Dean: I agree.  

Joe: And so, the point is that you really have to focus more on the substance of what you’re selling and less on your “image”. And that’s not to say you should look like crap.  

Dean: Here’s the thing though. I think if you’re not going to look like crap, I think you go the opposite way and go undersign.  

Joe: And that’s what I mean.  

Dean: Stop your Divorce, for instance. The printed copies of Stop your Divorce, are eight and a half by 11, plain white cover, with just the information of the book inside. No design work at all on the cover. Completely blank, white pages and we’ve sold millions of dollars of that, and it’s not about that, but we sell that book, it’s a hundred page book, for $99.  

Joe: What is the logic behind that?  

Dean: Well, part of it, first off, you hit on it before, if you make it look like a book that they could get at the bookstore, it’s like, well, why am I paying $99 for this when I see bigger books than this for $19 at the bookstore? That’s part of it. Then the other part of it, is the sensitivity of realizing that it’s a sensitive subject, that nobody wants to be sitting at lunch reading a book with a big cover, Stop your Divorce. That’s like, Cure your Hemorrhoids or something. It’s like, that’s not the kind of thing that people are going to want everybody to know that they’re reading. So, sometimes design is about being sensitive to what’s appropriate.  

Joe: Exactly. And so, how would you recommend that people go about naming something?  

Dean: Well, let’s expand what we’re talking about with naming, because we’ve been talking about naming products and naming companies, but naming anything, naming your offers, is something that is one of the best ways to increase the likelihood that somebody’s going to ask for it. I’ve mentioned before, how this whole idea of just leaving things to chance, it’s like me inviting you into my living room and saying, “Hey, there’s lot of stuff in the fridge. Go ahead and help yourself”, or coming out with a plate of freshly baked cookies and saying, “Hey, would you like a cookie?” It’s so much easier for people to take it, but if you can name what the next step is; the thing 7 I’m thinking of immediately for the realtors, is having daily house tours, where you name that, and you’re saying, here’s one of the things we do is these daily house tours.  

Dean: And it makes it like a menu of things that somebody can order. It makes it easy for people to have confidence in something too. So I think you can name an offering, you can name a process.  

Joe: Some examples that I have, of course, for my professional carpet upholstery cleaners, I mean we name everything from the process where people used to go, and I invented this, call it a *0:19:27.4.  

Dean: Right. We talked about that, yeah.  

Joe: What’s funny is that Dr Daniel Amen, who wrote a whole bunch of books on the brain, Change your Brain, Change your Life, and a bunch of books and he’s raised millions of dollars for public television. Super sharp guy that’s in my 25K group and he listened to my whole *0:19:49.6 program and he created a brain audit, and now people can go to Daniel Amen’s site, I think it’s Dr Amen – whatever – if you do a search for Daniel  

Dean: Amen, he has many sites. I can’t remember which one has the brain audit. But someone can do a whole brain audit, and they can answer questions and evaluate how well their brain is. How well their brain’s doing, and he will then give people recommendations on how they can improve their thinking, their focus, their health. Everything all around it. But the point is, that it allows people to understand what something other than, you’re going to get a quote, you’re going to get something of value. So when you make an offer, if you’re using education-based marketing, which is obviously the stuff we believe in, you not only can use the name to get people to understand what it is you’re doing, but you can also provide them value in the process by taking them through it. You mentioned something that I have to bring up again, although we’ve talked about it, is cookies. Now, when we talked about the breakfast cookies, I had someone contact me, which, you know, we won’t name names, and said, “Can I order the breakfast cookies in Canada?”  

Dean: I just ordered it. I got two dozen of them.  

Joe: They’re in Florida, but because of the I Love Marketing podcast, it’s like, I need to order breakfast.  

Dean: They’ve had other people call and order too.  

Joe: They were just fantastic.  

Dean: It’s great.  

Joe: But, I mean, breakfast cookie.  

Dean: I know.  

Joe: It’s like, you could slap breakfast on pretty much anything.  

Dean: Well, we were just talking about the café that I go to up here. We were just at Skolachis, and we were talking with Tracey, the owner, about breakfast pizza. Because they’ve got the pizza, this nice thin crust pizza, but you can have breakfast pizza with eggs and stuff on it. It’s funny. I think naming something like that, I think it goes a 8 long way, and I think anything that people are going to see, and you’re hoping to make an impression with, even starting with your domain name, you know, the name of your dot com, is a big thing. I think that a lot of times, people make the mistake in their domain names by making it all about them.  

Joe: Like, Dean Jackson.com or Joe Polish.com.  

Dean: Well, I think you should have that if you have the ability for people who know you, but that’s not the only website that we have. That’s not the one that you’re hoping to sell stuff to people. Like, if you say Stop your Divorce.com, is there anything confusing about what that could be about?  

Joe: No, not really.  

Dean: Not at all.  

Joe: Or Double your Dating.  

Dean: Double your Dating.com.  

Joe: Did you have any say in that name?  

Dean: Well, we brainstormed a bunch of different ones, but that was the winner. And, you know, Money Making Websites.com. I mean, if you can get the benefit in there. But one of the mistakes that people make, especially even in real estate, is they try and put themselves into the equation, you know, they’re selling like, Homes by Dean, or Dean sells Georgetown, or Joe Cleans Carpets. You know, like trying to make themselves the star of the website and that’s a big mistake because nobody’s really interested in you. That’s not what they’re about. So the more you can focus on the cheese, on what the exciting thing that your prospects really want, what would be a dream come true for them, what would they look at a domain name? You’ve got to imagine, if you see it in a lineup, if you see five or six domain names that they can choose from, what would make yours jump out at them? And you can have lots of different domain names. I’m sure you probably teach your carpet cleaners this, that they can have an allergy-related name or a name that goes into that health type thing, or an emergency carpet cleaning type of name. Things that are going to speak exactly to the audience who’s listening.  

Joe: Well we publish a health old newsletter, and we have healthy home audits. There’s all kinds of stuff related to packing there. Now, how does that relate, Dean, to the old, but still very wise, unique selling proposition. Just even talking someone through USP, I hear people say, “USP, that’s old hat.”  

Dean: Well, there’s so many confusing definitions of it. And that’s the thing. I always focus on what’s the thing that is going to be outwardly focused; that they’re going to say, “That’s exactly what I need.” That’s really what the answer is. Are people going to look at that and say, “That’s exactly what I need.” And you know, one of the best examples of it, is Excedrin Migraine. I think I showed you this in the drug store and I’m going to talk more about it at our conference. I had a friend who was coming down to Florida from Toronto, and you can’t get Excedrin Migraine in Canada, and we were looking for it in the store. And I know the pharmacist there and we were asking him about it and he was saying, “Well, you know what, Extra Strength is exactly the same 9 thing.” So sure enough, I looked at the packages, and you should do this some time, get the Excedrin Migraine package and get the Excedrin Extra Strength package, and it is exactly the same thing. There is absolutely nothing different about Excedrin Migraine than Excedrin Extra Strength, except the name. When somebody has a migraine, they’re looking and looking and thinking, well, that one’s specifically for migraines. Of course, that’s what I need.  

Joe: Well, I’ll tell you this. I noticed this a couple of years ago in Target, where they have Huggies diapers, and they had Huggies with white babies on it and Huggies with black babies on it.  

Dean: Did they really?  

Joe: Yes. And I mean, I was like going, how funny, where you just literally know they’re making these race associations, so that the white couples are going to go in and who knows.  

Dean: That’s our baby, yeah.  

Joe: It was like, you know.  

Dean: I have to see that. I have to look for them next time.  

Joe: But see, people should really look at things when you’re driving around, when you’re in stores and see the unique packaging and stuff like that. For USP with my cleaners, as an example, unique selling proposition. One of my guy’s years ago came up with, the most thorough cleaning ever or it’s free. So, instead of the name of the company, the big thing that they would put in the ads that many cleaners put – I even trade marketed this one. It’s the most thorough cleaning ever, or it’s free. I mean, that says something.  

Dean: That’s great.  

Joe: That’s meaningful. And so, with the associations of stuff that exist, even Dan Kennedy when he used to sell magnetic marketing as one of his primary products – he still has that, and he always updates it over the years – when he first started selling that, I mean, gosh, almost 20 years ago probably …  

Dean: That’s one of the best programs ever though.  

Joe: Absolutely. When he would speak at Herbalife, for example, years ago, the multi-level company, he would put a green and white cover over magnetic marketing. Or if he would speak to Mary Kay and put a pink cover on magnetic marketing, it would bump his response 10% or 20%, simply because they thought it was associated just for them.  

Dean: That’s funny.  

Joe: I remember them doing that. So, everything that you do could have a link. Like, for instance, I’m staying at your house, Dean, which no one really wants to know about any of that, but your wife, Soni. So, you have two homes. You have one in the Toronto area, and one in Florida and I’ve stayed at your homes, you know, different times. And so, you have a basement in your home in Georgetown. And so, I was taking a shower, because you have a big bathroom down there, and in the shower there 10 is shampoo. And usually, if I stay at hotels, I don’t carry my own shampoo. And there is a Bedhead product that was like – what was it called – I think it was like Sexy Curls or something. It was in a purple bottle, and I’m sitting there thinking, you know, honestly …  

Dean: Were you afraid to put it on in case you get some sexy curls?  

Joe: No, but if you just think about that, like, when they’re making shampoos, is there that much difference? Maybe there is. Maybe there’s some formula of the soap.  

Dean: I mean, that’s it. He’s got sexy curls.

Joe: I’m like thinking, this is totally hysterical, that they would just name something that. Nobody thinks about that, and that’s why there’s, “That’s for me. I have curly hair. I’m going to get curly hair.”  

Dean: I wonder. You’re absolutely right. Like, what could the formula be? It’s like Excedrin Migraine. It’s funny.  

Joe: Exactly. Lather, rinse, repeat. The power of words.  

Dean: Do you want to know one of the funniest naming things, just reframing? Eben Pagen and I. Eben was down in Winterhaven, and we were talking about Walmart and found out that 25% all of the jewellery sold in the United States is sold at Walmart. And so, we had to go see what that was all about. So we walk into Walmart, and we went over to the jewellery section and see how that goes. And there was this collection of rings here, and there was a little sign that labelled it, the right-hand ring collection. And there is a little description there that the left hand is for expressions of love and the right hand is for self-expression. So, the evil psychology of these women going in there with low self-esteem thinking, I wish my husband would buy me something like that, and then they see this sign that says, the right-hand ring collection is for your self-expression, and all these rings are specifically for your right hand. It’s like unbelievable, the evilness of that. The right-hand ring collection. Like, what makes a ring for your right hand or left hand? I mean, good grief.  

Joe: It’s funny.  

Dean: But it makes it okay for a woman to buy herself a ring, because I’m wearing it on my right hand. That’s my self-expression hand.  

Joe: So if you want to unload more rings, then you come up with clever ways to do it.  

Dean: That’s exactly right. And that is clever.  

Joe: I think we should just reveal ourselves publicly here, Dean. We watched Never say Never last night.  

Dean: We did.  

Joe: Justin Beiber.  

Dean: Second time for me. 11  

Joe: For you.  

Dean: I watched it again with you.  

Joe: Now, let me say this. Everyone listening to I Love Marketing, you need to order the DVD, or you need to go online, and you need to download it and watch Never say Never, Justin Beiber. The reason being is, I never really had seen Justin Beiber on YouTube. I sort of know the story, but I didn’t really know the story till after watching that movie. And a couple of weeks ago, I was in LA, and Guy Kawasaki was speaking, and he had talked about how that is one of the best movies, like ever, if you want to understand marketing. And the cool thing about it now, it’s not going to teach you how to write copy or a direct response or any of the stuff that we talk about on I Love Marketing, however it will give you a perspective of social media and what can be done with talent packaged and put out into the world.  

Dean: And hard work.  

Joe: And more than anything, hard work. I mean, the kid’s doing 86 tours straight. That kid works his butt off. He’s earned every bit of success.  

Dean: But you know, before he ever got to that, the fascinating thing, I mean, if you look at the art of the arc and it truly is testament to the fact that the cream does rise to the top. He’s always been singing, always been musical. Started putting up his videos on YouTube and Scooter Braun, the guy in Atlanta, discovered his videos and introduced him to Jermaine Dupri and Usher and all that. But, here’s the thing, is that even though, you know, he was in that kind of company, he had to go out and make it happen. I mean, they showed this whole segment of the movie where he went to basically every radio station and played his music live, right there, for them, because they weren’t playing him on the radio and he went out and went on tour and built that base of radio stations that played it. But the fact is, that he had a product that sold itself, and that’s, I think, part of it.  

Joe: And he cares about his audience.  

Dean: Right.  

Joe: I know. We talked about it. It’s curious to see what’s going to happen to him, you know, 10 years, 20 years out.  

Dean: Right. That’s what we were talking about. Which way.  

Joe: Is his ego going to grow so huge at some point. And when someone becomes that big and is not tarnished yet, there is many people waiting for the crash, waiting for him to do some drugs or get caught with the wrong woman or whatever, because he’s this young guy. But it’s just such a great success story right now, 2011. And last year, in the last 12 months, I think 51% of all music purchased was Justin Beiber.  

Dean: That seems crazy.  

Joe: And if you think about that, I mean, bigger than Lady Gaga. I mean, big right now. But it’s interesting. We’ll span a couple of years out and see what happens, but in the interim, talk about hard work, talk about engaging with your clients, engaging with the 12 media, you know, when you see him go to these different radio stations and all the DJs know him, and he broke them all. And if you want to have a breakthrough, you got to break something. And he very much followed that, and he used Twitter and still does. YouTube. It’s just a great success story. So, I think you’ll learn a lot about positioning by going and seeing Never say Never. Well, it’s not in theatres anymore, so now it’s more like just order it. But do that. And as we drive through, if I see anything that really strikes me as kind of interesting with billboards …  

Dean: We’re just coming into Toronto downtown on the Gardner Expressway, and it’s. There’s so many billboards right around this area.  

Joe: Smart Water. And is that Jennifer Anniston?  

Dean: Yep.  

Joe: So Smart Water has an endorsement with Jennifer Anniston, and that’s better than Dumb Water, or just Water.  

Dean: What makes that water smart? What makes that water so smart?  

Joe: I don’t know. And then there’s the all-new, all-powerful superphone. It’s not even just a smartphone now, it’s a super phone, like a supermodel. What’s the difference between a regular model, Dean and a supermodel?  

Dean: That’s true. It’s the name.  

Joe: And so, I’m just going to see if we can point out any billboards that look kind of interesting. There was one that I remember. I was down here several years ago. I don’t know if they still have this billboard anymore. I don’t even know the company. But it was some sort of alcohol, some liquor. And it said, “We use the most expensive ingredients and pass the cost onto you.” And I love that. I love that. I think that is just fantastic, because it really speaks of high end. Now, for instance, you’re going to stay at the Hazelton Hotel, tonight.  

Dean: Yes.  

Joe: And I’m going to stay at Dan’s home with Dan.  

Dean: You decided that now.  

Joe: Yeah, probably, because I mean, why not, right?  

Dean: Why not?  

Joe: I can either hang out with you in a hotel, or I can go hang out with someone smarter than you. Kidding. Supposed to be a joke.  

Dean: I understand.  

Joe: You need to say something, because people think I’m being mean here. So, that right now is right across the street from the Four Seasons and during 9/11 I think Four Seasons was the only hotel that did not drop their price, I think. 13  

Dean: Is that right?  

Joe: Yeah. I could be wrong, but I believe that was the case. And they still maintained a pretty good occupancy rate. And now I think we may be getting a call.  

Dean: No.  

Joe: So, Dean, let me ask you. For everything we’ve talked about here, what are some of the take always that people listening need to go back and think about? Their name, not only the name of their company, but the name of their products.  

Dean: Well, I think they should do a naming audit and look at every element of what they do that either has a name currently, that’s under-optimized, or could have a name. One of the things that people often do, is they try and have something broad enough as an umbrella to fit everything that they do, rather than have a specific name for each service or each offering that they have. And I think if they can look at segmenting things and what would be the best name that they could have for any segment, and it usually starts with the segments of the market that they serve. If you did the carpet cleaning, we talk about this idea of some people want to get their carpets cleaned because of the allergy-related stuff, allergy-proofing their home. Some people only get their carpets cleaned when they’ve got to get out a tough stain.  

Joe: Hold on. Now, there’s a Jack Daniels billboard, that has Jack meets Ginger, they elope.  

Dean: And it’s simply giving them a way to combine Jack Daniels with Ginger ale.  

Dean: There you go.  

Joe: So that was a billboard. So, talk about the association there, not that anyone should be doing that, but I’m just bringing it up.  

Dean: And that’s the thing. I think billboards are one of the toughest things to actually have an impact with, unless you have a really powerful name, and that goes a long way. It’s something that’s memorable.  

Joe: Well, you know what’s great, is it’s typically never a direct response of course, because I mean, how do you know. And the way they sell it, is this many impressions.  

Dean: And this many people drive here, but everybody’s in a coma when they’re driving by here.  

Joe: There’s plenty of big corporations that have these ad budgets where they piss away money down a big black hole, and they have an adage throwing in this and throwing in that. It’s kind of amusing actually.  

Dean: So, getting back to this naming audit. I think, starting with the domain name and starting with even the name of their company or their DBA. You know the guys that did Big Ass Fans?  

Joe: Yeah. 14  

Dean: So have you ever driven by their thing on Highway 75 in Kentucky? You drive by, and from the highway, you can see their big thing. It says, “Big Ass Fans.” But you know, before they named it Big Ass Fans, it was a pretty generic name. What they do, is they make fans for big factories. They’re high velocity, low speed, HVLS. It was HVLS Technologies or some kind of name that was just completely meaningless. But every time they would install one of these fans, as soon as people came in to see it, the first words out of their mouth would always be, “That’s a big ass fan.” So they just went ahead and named the company, Big Ass Fans. And so you think about how much of an impact that is. They’re getting mail from HVLS Technologies or high volume fan solutions or whatever all the technical terms for it, and here’s a chance for them to name something that people actually, what they say when they do it.  

Joe: So, I think one of the things that has always been useful to me, is listen to what your clients say. Why do they buy from you? What are the questions they’re asking you? What are their biggest concerns? What are their biggest objections? Those sorts of things allow you to piece together what you’re going to call something, how you’re going to communicate to people. It’s the same way that I put together my consumer guide for carpet cleaning. What I ended up doing was, what are all of the things that people didn’t know that they didn’t know about carpet cleaning and that’s how I ended up coming with seven questions to ask your carpet cleaner before you invite him into your home. And if you’re a graphic designer, seven questions to ask a graphic designer before you hire them. Six costly misconceptions about carpet cleaning. In your particular business, it might be four or five. How to avoid four carpet cleaning rip-offs. In your particular industry, whatever, if there are rip-offs. Anything that has to do with misconceptions, questions, misrepresentations, concerns that people have. How to make an informed mind decision. The difference between X and X, value and price.  

Dean: All those sorts of things allow you to communicate more effectively and get people to buy from you. And you don’t typically need to come up with them. You just simply need to listen. You need to look at what people are saying, what they’re talking about, what they’re asking you questions about and if you need some feedback, just not only ask people that buy from you, who your best customers and clients are, why did they buy from you, what is it about you that caused them to not only do business with you the first time, but why did they continue to do business with you. And then also, and this is a more difficult conversation, people that have never bought from you that you have made an offer to, but they didn’t respond. Especially if they went to someone else. If you could ask them, you know, say, “Look, I’m not even trying to sell you anything. Out of curiosity, to improve my own business, why did you not buy from me? What was it that was not convincing or that did not convey value?” And you may very well find some of the most effective fodder, the most effective ingredients needed to improve any of your marketing by people that simply have not responded to you. That’s how you win them over. In a lot of ways, it’s just finding the bait that you’re going to put on the hook that’s going to get the fish to bite and if the fish are not biting on your current bait, is there something wrong with the name, is there something wrong with the product, is there something wrong with the services or something wrong with the delivery, that sort of stuff. I mean, that’s how you improve anything, if you simply improve the communication, especially if what you have people want and they need and it benefits people. Why are people not getting it from you? What is it that you are not saying or doing that is not getting them to buy from you? Now, we’ve only got a couple of minutes left, Dean. We could go a little bit longer, but that would require us to actually pull over, and we’re almost at our location. So, you mentioned the thing 15 about cheese, and we did talk about that on a previous I Love Marketing podcast. And I think if you have not listened to the very beginning of I Love Marketing, it’s great stuff and I would recommend you listen to all of our podcasts to the best of your abilities, but the cheese analogy. What is that again? Could you talk about that, because I think it really helps create a context about presenting yourself.  

Dean: Absolutely. Part of really crafting the right words and the right offers and the right sequence of events, is thinking about how your prospects interact with your business, but not only your business, but the category of whatever it is that they’re doing. And I found out that why scientists use mice in experimenting with things is because they are very similar genetically to humans, in that their brains are much, much smaller but they behave 95% the same as humans, in terms of the critical functions. So with a small brain like that, you really think that the mouse brain is imprinted with two prime directives and those are, get cheese and avoid cats. That’s the two things that are utmost in their minds.  

Joe: That’s like a Robocop, *0:47:51.1 Remember that movie, Robocop?  

Dean: Exactly. And your prospects are exactly the same way. A lot of people have used that analogy that they’re mostly frightened. They’re afraid of making the wrong choice, but they’re also driven by their desire to get cheese. And I think cheese is a great blanket term to mean something good. The good thing that they really want. More money or the benefit or the result that it is that you offer. They all want the result, and they want to avoid getting ripped off or losing, or being made to look foolish. All that resistance, people are always, on a real sub-conscious level, weighing the odds of them getting the result that they want, versus what’s the worst thing that could happen. And if you can remove all of those things and make something all about the cheese that they really want, without it being about you, it’s almost like it sets it into motion. It sets it into autopilot that when they take advantage of something, an offer that you’ve made them, then you are thinking not just immediately about making the sale, but about two or three moves down the road that that’s going to lead to the sale. One of the best examples of this, is the evolution of this listing getting system that I have four real estate agents, where I started out with postcards that would say, sell your house in 90 days guaranteed, which worked out well. But then you would get people who were interested in selling their house quickly. But then I started able to get more response by offering a postcard that said, find out how much your River Oaks home is worth for free over the phone. So that was a bump in the response, but the biggest bump, was when I took completely out of the equation the thought that you’re going to be selling your house or listing it with me and moved into just offering the free June 2011 report on River oaks house prices, which is something that we’re not implying at all that you’re going to list your house with me or that I’m going to sell your house. But by virtue of you raising your hand and asking for that, there’s a really good chance that the reason that you want that is because you’re thinking of selling your house. And it’s the same thing when you look at any situation, is what is the outer most rim of the decision process that people are going to go through to buy whatever it is that you sell. What’s the information? What’s the thing that they need to know ahead of time before they purchase.  

Joe: I mean going through that decision is so valuable. I love it. That’s good stuff. And as usual, you’re just a man that strides the world like colossal. So what we’re going to do this year at our conference, which is going to be September 21st and 22nd, in beautiful 16 Phoenix, Arizona, during that time of the year it’s going to be awesome and so if you are not registered for the I Love Marketing conference, get your butt registered for it. You can get on our list at Ilovemarketing.com and get details sent to you. Nothing high pressure. It’s just going to be an awesome event. And we’re going to give those of you that attend, a big awesome million dollar marketing manual filled with ad templates and strategies and copy and some examples of the best, not only sales promotions and campaigns for online and offline marketing, but also things related to everything we talked about today. Naming and packaging and unique selling propositions and powerful offers and guarantees and all that sort of stuff. So, we are at our location, Dean. So any famous last words from you before we wrap up our first ever driving around I Love Marketing call? I mean, I hope this was not completely distracting for everyone listening. I’m curious to see what the comments are. Did you guys and gals like this? There’s a giant rock out here in Toronto. What is that? What’s that called, so people kind of know where we’re at?  

Dean: We’re in Yorkville right now. We’re on Cumberland.  

Joe: What is the deal with that gigantic rock?  

Dean: It’s just a big rock that was right there in the middle of the.

Joe: You don’t know the story behind it.  

Dean: I don’t know the story.  

Joe: Someone told me the story about it before, but I forgot. It’s a rock.  

Dean: Here’s where we’re eating *0:53:07.0 right there.  

Joe: Wonderful. So that’s where we’re going to go eat tonight. You needed to know that, everyone at I Love Marketing.  

Dean: So the naming audit, look at the things, look at your domain name, look at the name of your company, look at the name of the service you provide, look at how you could name the service you provide, name the different services you provide. If you don’t already have a name for them and outwardly focused, think about the benefit and name it something that somebody is going to go, that’s exactly what I need. Give us some examples in the comments. Give us some examples of what you’ve come up with. We’d love to see some of those.  

Joe: Right. And if you go see Justin Beiber and Never say Never, make a comment about what you learned from the movie and how it applies to progress and success in life. And I think if you really watch it from that standpoint, you know, if you’re a guy, your friends will make fun of you because you watched a Justin Beiber move, especially if you’re, you know, over the age of 20. And so that’s it. On behalf of myself and Dean Jackson, this is wrapping up I Love Marketing car cast. BMW cast. What do you call this, Dean?  

Dean: The other X5 cast. There we go.  

Joe: There you go. Have a great day everyone, and we will talk with you next time. 17 END OF TRANSCRIPT


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